An appeal please get off Steve Bruce`s back

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How is looking at a 9 month period cherry picking individual games? How is pointing out a win percentage of around 30% cherry picking individual matches?

26 points from a possible 75 in 2011. That is not cherry picking individual games. That is pointing out that we havnt been good enough in the whole of 2011

Actually it is sort of cherry picking, though it wasn't particularly what I was referring to originally.

Last season finished in May, and it finished on 10th over 38 games.

The team was rebuilt in the summer.

This season started in August. Slow start, but 3 PL defeats isn't suicide country in the circumstances.

That's how it is, in every respect that matters.

"2011" and "9 month period" mean nothing. They cover two seasons, two different teams, and a summer. A bad run that happened last season ended (with 3 wins from 5) and by definition isn't continuing now. So it means nothing to join those things up. There's no contextual continuity except the manager, and he's shown he's up to the job (generally) by season-on-season results. Therefore you might as well worry about what happened in 1954 as far as it regards the season that's unfolding now.
 
Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
Actually it is sort of cherry picking, though it wasn't particularly what I was referring to originally.

Last season finished in May, and it finished on 10th over 38 games.

The team was rebuilt in the summer.

This season started in August. Slow start, but 3 PL defeats isn't suicide country in the circumstances.

That's how it is, in every respect that matters.

"2011" and "9 month period" mean nothing. They cover two seasons, two different teams, and a summer. A bad run that happened last season ended (with 3 wins from 5) and by definition isn't continuing now. So it means nothing to join those things up. There's no contextual continuity except the manager, and he's shown he's up to the job (generally) by season-on-season results. Therefore you might as well worry about what happened in 1954 as far as it regards the season that's unfolding now.

I agree with this to a point. If I could see any sign of a plan from Bruce and how he sees us progressing I would be firmly behind him.

I dont think he has addressed enough of the problems we had last season. In fact I think we are significantly weaker than we were this time last year.

Will still back him while he is in charge but I feel his time is running out.
 
Actually it is sort of cherry picking, though it wasn't particularly what I was referring to originally.

Last season finished in May, and it finished on 10th over 38 games.

The team was rebuilt in the summer.

This season started in August. Slow start, but 3 PL defeats isn't suicide country in the circumstances.

That's how it is, in every respect that matters.

"2011" and "9 month period" mean nothing. They cover two seasons, two different teams, and a summer. A bad run that happened last season ended (with 3 wins from 5) and by definition isn't continuing now. So it means nothing to join those things up. There's no contextual continuity except the manager, and he's shown he's up to the job (generally) by season-on-season results. Therefore you might as well worry about what happened in 1954 as far as it regards the season that's unfolding now.
Ok mate, you keep defending the useless clown. It's the reason why 10k fans are not coming to watch the games. That tells you it's own story. Everyone is sick of the clown. Useless tactics and pathetic comments after games blaming everyone but himself.

What is your tipping point for te departure of potato head? Would be interesting to know.
 
Ok mate, you keep defending the useless clown. It's the reason why 10k fans are not coming to watch the games. That tells you it's own story. Everyone is sick of the clown. Useless tactics and pathetic comments after games blaming everyone but himself.

What is your tipping point for te departure of potato head? Would be interesting to know.

Maybe also a bit to do with the economy, cost of attending, over exposure of football, being generally fed up with the wankers that call themselves footballers, loss of identity, availability of dodgy watching alternatives, etc, etc.

And I'm not defending him, I'm defending (what I see as) facts and circumstances being distorted. I'm probably in a Champions League place (or at least 10th ;) ) in the table of worriers about the current circumstances because, as I kept saying in the summer, I look at all the changes and see "too much". But then I take a step back and take a birds eye view of the last two seasons, and think he deserves a proper crack at proving me wrong. And he hasn't had it yet.

The judging point for me is sometime in the new year, with a tipping point before that if we get into serious trouble.
 
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This is an appeal to those forum users who are so full of venom towards our manager .

Please take a little time to step back and count your blessings . Think where the club was , or perhaps you have not been around long enough to remember ? Begin to focus your attention on supporting Sunderland AFC not attacking an individual . You will feel better , you will enjoy your football more and be more willing and able to give vocal support to the players in red and white stripes .

The attack on Steve Bruce is making us the laughing stock of the football world . My contacts throughout England ( and in Newcastle ) cant believe the ignorance ( that sums it up ) , short sightedness , fickleness and hatred demonstrated by a minority of so called Sunderland supporters .

Steve Bruce is a good bloke , passionate for success at Sunderland and I believe will prove to be the best manager we have had . Steve Bruce is held in high esteem by football managers . I firmly believe that at the end of the next eight game period we will be in the top eight .If this is the case then I will be a very happy man . I look forward to getting behind the club at the next game as I have done for the last 50 years .

Should Steve Bruce go then I would imagine that the same ill feeling will go towards the next manager after a couple of years . A new manager does not guarantee success or better football .

I would suggest that the majority of the anti Steve Bruce brigade are of relatively young years and have been fed on a diet of sky highlights and the wonder of the Premeiership .

I would also suggest that many of the anti brigade take a crash course in English language . You will find that the English dictionary is full of some wonderful , thoughtful words which help you to explain your thoughts clearly and constructively . I am also amazed to at the number of experts we have out there obviouslly highly qualified in both coaching and finacial management . I wonder where I gain gain these qualifications within a couple of months ?
My contacts throughout England ( and in Newcastle ) cant believe the ignorance ( that sums it up ) , short sightedness , fickleness and hatred demonstrated by a minority of so called Sunderland supporters

You ITK??

Personally I couldn't be happier with how many games we have won at home in the last 10 months but i'm not short sighted ...
 
You've just made this up to suit your argument haven't you? I know people and post on other forums and most fans of other clubs are amazed he's still in a job after the run we've been on.

I don't doubt that he's a good bloke but he's taken us as far as he can and I don't see him turning around our quite frankly woeful form any time soon. How people can still have so much faith in him after 4 wins from 21 (including defeats to lower league opposition) is bewildering.

Amazed may be a bit strong, but that's the general impression I get too.

I'm all for giving a manager time and I'd hate it if people were on a manager's back if he had just joined the club (as some were on here, IIRC), but to want him out now is very justifiable, even if it doesn't help anybody by calling for his head if, it's to have no impact.
 
This is an appeal to those forum users who are so full of venom towards our manager .

Please take a little time to step back and count your blessings . Think where the club was , or perhaps you have not been around long enough to remember ? Begin to focus your attention on supporting Sunderland AFC not attacking an individual . You will feel better , you will enjoy your football more and be more willing and able to give vocal support to the players in red and white stripes .

The attack on Steve Bruce is making us the laughing stock of the football world . My contacts throughout England ( and in Newcastle ) cant believe the ignorance ( that sums it up ) , short sightedness , fickleness and hatred demonstrated by a minority of so called Sunderland supporters .

Steve Bruce is a good bloke , passionate for success at Sunderland and I believe will prove to be the best manager we have had . Steve Bruce is held in high esteem by football managers . I firmly believe that at the end of the next eight game period we will be in the top eight .If this is the case then I will be a very happy man . I look forward to getting behind the club at the next game as I have done for the last 50 years .

Should Steve Bruce go then I would imagine that the same ill feeling will go towards the next manager after a couple of years . A new manager does not guarantee success or better football .

I would suggest that the majority of the anti Steve Bruce brigade are of relatively young years and have been fed on a diet of sky highlights and the wonder of the Premeiership .

I would also suggest that many of the anti brigade take a crash course in English language . You will find that the English dictionary is full of some wonderful , thoughtful words which help you to explain your thoughts clearly and constructively . I am also amazed to at the number of experts we have out there obviouslly highly qualified in both coaching and finacial management . I wonder where I gain gain these qualifications within a couple of months ?

Agreed
 
Actually it is sort of cherry picking, though it wasn't particularly what I was referring to originally.

Last season finished in May, and it finished on 10th over 38 games.

The team was rebuilt in the summer.

This season started in August. Slow start, but 3 PL defeats isn't suicide country in the circumstances.

That's how it is, in every respect that matters.

"2011" and "9 month period" mean nothing. They cover two seasons, two different teams, and a summer. A bad run that happened last season ended (with 3 wins from 5) and by definition isn't continuing now. So it means nothing to join those things up. There's no contextual continuity except the manager, and he's shown he's up to the job (generally) by season-on-season results. Therefore you might as well worry about what happened in 1954 as far as it regards the season that's unfolding now.

Agreed that picking a certain section of his career (albeit the most recent) is cherry picking to a certain extent, but "mean nothing"? Come off it. Of course a run as dismal as the one we've had since January means something, regardless of whether it was spread over two seasons. It's not as though somebody is picking the start of season one and the end of season two, either.

At the same time, the 10th place finish shouldn't be ignored by the anti-Bruce's, and I'm sure there are a few who like to gloss over it.
 
Amazed may be a bit strong, but that's the general impression I get too.

I'm all for giving a manager time and I'd hate it if people were on a manager's back if he had just joined the club (as some were on here, IIRC), but to want him out now is very justifiable, even if it doesn't help anybody by calling for his head if, it's to have no impact.

I had concerns at the start because I truly did not believe he was the right man for the job. Everything from his past screams upper championship / relegation battler. Early on it looked like I was wrong but his true colours have shone through.

We needed tinkering with, we didnt need full squad dismantlement and I cant say I was surprised to see which route he went down.

Very disapointed. We gave him a chance to manage at a more illustrious club but he still couldnt change his small time mindset
 
Actually it is sort of cherry picking, though it wasn't particularly what I was referring to originally.

Last season finished in May, and it finished on 10th over 38 games.

The team was rebuilt in the summer.

This season started in August. Slow start, but 3 PL defeats isn't suicide country in the circumstances.

That's how it is, in every respect that matters.

"2011" and "9 month period" mean nothing. They cover two seasons, two different teams, and a summer. A bad run that happened last season ended (with 3 wins from 5) and by definition isn't continuing now. So it means nothing to join those things up. There's no contextual continuity except the manager, and he's shown he's up to the job (generally) by season-on-season results. Therefore you might as well worry about what happened in 1954 as far as it regards the season that's unfolding now.

26 points from our last 25 league games. 2 cup exits against lower league opposition. Those are the facts from 2011.

Yes, the squad has been 'rebuilt'. But whose fault is that? Do we just let him rebuild the squad every window and then ignore the shit results because it is a new squad? How many squad rebuilds are we going to have without signing a left back? Or a left winger? Or a creative midfielder? Or a proper goalscorer?

2011 has been shit. Bent left, and at the same time so did Bruce's only gameplan. 26 points from a possible 75 is relegation form, and the buck stops with the man 'in charge'.

Agreed that picking a certain section of his career (albeit the most recent) is cherry picking to a certain extent, but "mean nothing"? Come off it. Of course a run as dismal as the one we've had since January means something, regardless of whether it was spread over two seasons. It's not as though somebody is picking the start of season one and the end of season two, either.

At the same time, the 10th place finish shouldn't be ignored by the anti-Bruce's, and I'm sure there are a few who like to gloss over it.

The 10th place shouldn't be ignored no, nor was it a fluke as some keep claiming. At the end of the season you end up where you deserve. We may have had luck in finishing there, but it was no fluke.
 
I had concerns at the start because I truly did not believe he was the right man for the job. Everything from his past screams upper championship / relegation battler. Early on it looked like I was wrong but his true colours have shone through.

We needed tinkering with, we didnt need full squad dismantlement and I cant say I was surprised to see which route he went down.

Very disapointed. We gave him a chance to manage at a more illustrious club but he still couldnt change his small time mindset

Everyone's entitled to their opinion of a new manager, and there'd be several I'd be unhappy with were we to appoint them. But I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and time at the start, otherwise the manager's got no chance of succeeding, and who wants that?
 
26 points from our last 25 league games. 2 cup exits against lower league opposition. Those are the facts from 2011.

Yes, the squad has been 'rebuilt'. But whose fault is that? Do we just let him rebuild the squad every window and then ignore the shit results because it is a new squad? How many squad rebuilds are we going to have without signing a left back? Or a left winger? Or a creative midfielder? Or a proper goalscorer?

2011 has been shit. Bent left, and at the same time so did Bruce's only gameplan. 26 points from a possible 75 is relegation form, and the buck stops with the man 'in charge'.



The 10th place shouldn't be ignored no, nor was it a fluke as some keep claiming. At the end of the season you end up where you deserve. We may have had luck in finishing there, but it was no fluke.

The fear to stay in this league by all but 7 or 8 clubs gives everybody a chance of avoiding relegation such is the mindset of all these managers . Its stay up at minimum cost as well , a manager like Bruce may keep you up season after season but to break the mould a manager with a football brain is required .
 
Maybe also a bit to do with the economy, cost of attending, over exposure of football, being generally fed up with the wankers that call themselves footballers, loss of identity, availability of dodgy watching alternatives, etc, etc.

And I'm not defending him, I'm defending (what I see as) facts and circumstances being distorted. I'm probably in a Champions League place (or at least 10th ;) ) in the table of worriers about the current circumstances because, as I kept saying in the summer, I look at all the changes and see "too much". But then I take a step back and take a birds eye view of the last two seasons, and think he deserves a proper crack at proving me wrong. And he hasn't had it yet.

The judging point for me is sometime in the new year, with a tipping point before that if we get into serious trouble.
:cool: hedging your bets now
 
Quinnys gone off on a fund raising mission...if Shorts not prepared to chip in...then you can see why...
Pick out your preferred team and realstically value them...apart from Gyan...whos worth over £5m...struggle isnt it..
How we gonna make progress...after spending a fortune we're very average...anar its the top flight.
Either Bruces survives...which I cant see...or our next boss will have to be a big improvement in all ways...buying and handling the players...tactics..
 
Actually it is sort of cherry picking, though it wasn't particularly what I was referring to originally.

Last season finished in May, and it finished on 10th over 38 games.

The team was rebuilt in the summer.

This season started in August. Slow start, but 3 PL defeats isn't suicide country in the circumstances.

That's how it is, in every respect that matters.

"2011" and "9 month period" mean nothing. They cover two seasons, two different teams, and a summer. A bad run that happened last season ended (with 3 wins from 5) and by definition isn't continuing now. So it means nothing to join those things up. There's no contextual continuity except the manager, and he's shown he's up to the job (generally) by season-on-season results. Therefore you might as well worry about what happened in 1954 as far as it regards the season that's unfolding now.

Excellent post.

And so obvious in facts and context that it should be quoted time and time again to the baying crowd.
 
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