An appeal please get off Steve Bruce`s back

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He'd be distracted by your nose uncomfortably far up his arse. For the record he was completely out of his tree last night and posting incoherent drivel. Not to mention factual inaccuracies like our away form mysteriously improving "of late".

Come to think of it, have you shown your reasoning that our form outwith the 9 game bad run was champions league? Thought not.

How many times do you intend to keep asking for something that's already been given, in detail, several times, and you've even (incorrectly) argued about it. Are you a goldfish?

Bad news for you if he was like. ;)

Form is measured over six games? Since when? :lol:

Er..since virtually all the form sites, including the official Premier League one.

Don't you ever check them? Obviously not, since you make statements about form that aren't correct.

since when - i thought you said form was measured over a season?

Then you were wrong. There's a turnip for the books.

Bruce took over a team in the Premier League, with Premier League quality players in it, and had to push it into the top half. Were 3 rebuilds really needed? Especially when the squad still looks lacking in many areas.

:lol: I was going to reply to the whole thing, but that killed me.

Keane moved us up and left us in danger, Bruce is also moving us up and so far hasn't. I don't see how you can approve the staff turnover of one, and complain about the lesser turnover of the other, particularly when the latter had to get rid of the shite left by the former.
 
Er..since virtually all the form sites, including the official Premier League one.

But previously you ignored any kind of form, using only the entire season. Now because certain publications use "LLWLLD" etc over six games that's the only way we can judge it? :lol:

Don't you ever check them? Obviously not, since you make statements about form that aren't correct.

I do not make any statements about form which aren't correct, prove what you just said there. Usually when anyone talks about form, it's about form over a certain period, whether it's six games or six months and generally (as I've done) you mention the period.

It does matter. Growth comes in steps, this one's been a big one, with an aim (ihmo) to lessen the dependencies on loaners and prima donnas. Loaners were used, did their jobs, and have to be replaced on an increasingly permanent basis. And there's the unexpected holes to re-fill - Bent, Gyan, Henderson, (arguably) Steed, (probably) Gordon and now Bramble. And of course you also have to sell, to some degree, before you can buy.

You can't seriously talk about growth when we've been shitting quality players, be them loans or ours and replacing them with cheapos and sub standards. Besides it's not about growth, it's about not going backwards fast, about not being relegated because of the managers choice in signings - because that's mainly all the bloke has in his favour as a manager.

And the loans were his choice - hence having deals in place to sign all but one of them apparently, he was all in favour of them until they started going back/not impressing and we couldn't get the ones we actually wanted permanantly. Then they became an excuse.

How on earth are Gordon, Steed. "unexpected holes to fill"? With Gordon you've commented on how injury prone he is (hence it's not unexpected) and he'd already signed Mig, who played half of last season. He let Steed go. And with Bent he's had six months to do it. Even if you discount that time, then any football manager with a scouting system should have targets and lists and be watching potential players anyway and have something lined up, even if it's not like for like - just something.


He's been in the job 2 and a bit seasons. You're argument boils down to "why didn't he do it all at once?". The answer's simple, that's both impossible and dangerous.

On his arrival Bruce asked us to judge him after a certain period of time and I'm doing it pretty close to that time. If he's building something thenI'm not sure what it is. When looking at his conflicting comments as time goes by and his constant changes - he surely isn't either.



Gyan turned up unfit, all part of the want away. Prior to that, with a partner, he was a good player. Bramble's also a good player, but had to form a new partnership with Brown. Doesn't alter the fact that they have to be replaced,

Bramble turned up unfit too, did he want away too?

Yeah they have to be replaced and if results stay poor then wont we hear about it....

We don't lack a left side, we lack a left midfielder. As I said, and as you know, that's been in the works. Rich, that you whinge about 12 signings and then about not having 13. Quality in midfield? See Steed - clearly a story to that departure - and give the new lads a chance.

No, we really do lack a left side.

I dont whinge about 12 signings, I whinge about a manager constantly changing and one minute saying he only needs to tinker, then the next saying we need an overhaul. The problem is he keeps doing it. You would expect with that many signings that we'd add something to the left hand side which has hindered us for years - a winger or a left back or even both, but none turned up.

Give the new lads a chance, like you did with Gordon???


As I keep saying, you put a unilateral, negative slant on everything, cos you're Bruce hater, like you were/are an MMC hater. Mind he seems to have survived a few more PL seasons that you unilaterally, negatively proclaimed was ever going to happen.

I'm not a Bruce hater, I'm a Sunderland fan. Nor was I actually this negative about him when McCarthy was in charge - I gave him a lot of credit, my arguments about him were mostly prior and after him being here. The one thing I'll say about McCarthy though is the bloke seems to have got wiser as he's got older and he knows how he wants his team to play, whereas Bruce changes with the wind.

"Move us on" means several things. You completely overlook the constraints he has to work with. The "moving on" this season is to establish a sustainable squad (for once) and weather the consequences on the pitch, for the moment. See Stubber's posts, he's wiser than you.

Constraints? He's still spent about £20m+ this season. Nah that doesn't wash.

Sustainable squad I'm happy enough with. I'd be happy enough if I could see us having a pattern and a way of play which our players understand and gradually moving towards something, where the likes of Wickham and Ji (and others) come to the fore and we make that gradual progress. But what we have now is a fragmented, disjointed system and squad, one which lacks pace and class and leadership and coming from a manager that continually changes his mind. It's broken and the majority of the fans can see it.


Not knowing how to use Sess comes down to no Gyan. Its fairly obvious how he'd be used if we had 2 recognised strikers in the team. The problem is that we don't, and you can't blame Bruce for that. He didn't create the situation, he has to deal with it.

Are you impling that Bruce would operate with him in the "hole" should we have two strikers? Because I doubt that would ever happen under Bruce. He signed him, he played him left wing, right wing when he had two strikers last season and now he sees him as a striker. But yeah blame Gyan.


And how much did we get for Henderson based on Bruce's faith in him? Riveros never looked up to the pace, and Zenden had a stinker for every decent subs appearance he put in. Henderson deserved his place, and then paid for several quality players.

Yeah Bruce's faith in him payed off totally - no disputing that. My point was when the going got tough Bruce's excuse was to blame his weak squad for having to play him so often, when really it was his poor signings in that area which meant he had to rely on a teenager so often.


I am fair minded. I'm far from convinced by Bruce (never have been, if you want to check the posting history) but I'm objective enough to accept he's done well over 2 seasons, is working within constraints, and has earned time to try to succeed with what he's doing, even though I have my own (repeatedly expressed) doubts. You aren't, you just blame him for everything not being the way you think it should be, right now, and completely ignore the bigger picture and whys and wherefores. FACT.

You've never been fair minded, you just have your opinion like most on here and argue it for ever like some do too, generally with insults thrown in when you're not getting your own way.
 
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This is an appeal to those forum users who are so full of venom towards our manager .

Please take a little time to step back and count your blessings . Think where the club was , or perhaps you have not been around long enough to remember ? Begin to focus your attention on supporting Sunderland AFC not attacking an individual . You will feel better , you will enjoy your football more and be more willing and able to give vocal support to the players in red and white stripes .

The attack on Steve Bruce is making us the laughing stock of the football world . My contacts throughout England ( and in Newcastle ) cant believe the ignorance ( that sums it up ) , short sightedness , fickleness and hatred demonstrated by a minority of so called Sunderland supporters .

Steve Bruce is a good bloke , passionate for success at Sunderland and I believe will prove to be the best manager we have had . Steve Bruce is held in high esteem by football managers . I firmly believe that at the end of the next eight game period we will be in the top eight .If this is the case then I will be a very happy man . I look forward to getting behind the club at the next game as I have done for the last 50 years .

Should Steve Bruce go then I would imagine that the same ill feeling will go towards the next manager after a couple of years . A new manager does not guarantee success or better football .

I would suggest that the majority of the anti Steve Bruce brigade are of relatively young years and have been fed on a diet of sky highlights and the wonder of the Premeiership .

I would also suggest that many of the anti brigade take a crash course in English language . You will find that the English dictionary is full of some wonderful , thoughtful words which help you to explain your thoughts clearly and constructively . I am also amazed to at the number of experts we have out there obviouslly highly qualified in both coaching and finacial management . I wonder where I gain gain these qualifications within a couple of months ?

Cheers, got me sorted. Sorry if I forget this tomorrow. I am really with it

Bruce out
 
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Whitburn Warrior joined this forum on 31/10/2010. What else happened that day?! Coincidence or a mag on a wind up?

Whitburnwarrior is a fanatical Sunderland supporter of 51 years . I want Steve Bruce to do well as I belive he is a very capable manager and I have a sneaky feeling that at the end of this season many people on here might be eating their words .
 
Then you were wrong. There's a turnip for the books.

Really

Hetzkes Ballet Teacher said:
The thing is, football goes in seasons not calendar years, or arbitrary periods picked to look as bad as possible. How did we do overall last season, again?

I especially like the arbitrary periods :lol:

I am fair minded. I'm far from convinced by Bruce (never have been, if you want to check the posting history) but I'm objective enough to accept he's done well over 2 seasons, is working within constraints, and has earned time to try to succeed with what he's doing, even though I have my own (repeatedly expressed) doubts. You aren't, you just blame him for everything not being the way you think it should be, right now, and completely ignore the bigger picture and whys and wherefores. FACT.

you're plenty of things but fair minded wouldn't be on the list - delusional, hypocritical, mental would all be pretty close to the top

But previously you ignored any kind of form, using only the entire season. Now because certain publications use "LLWLLD" etc over six games that's the only way we can judge it? :lol:

he's a card isn't he:lol::lol:
 
Poor performances and results over a sustained period of time can't be ignored or swept under the carpet like. Don't give a shit if it runs into 2 separate seasons or not, the Sunderland fans I know have just about had it with Bruce. He's under severe pressure because the malaise of last season has continued into this one and with some tough fixtures coming up then it could well get a bit worse yet.
 
Poor performances and results over a sustained period of time can't be ignored or swept under the carpet like. Don't give a shit if it runs into 2 separate seasons or not, the Sunderland fans I know have just about had it with Bruce. He's under severe pressure because the malaise of last season has continued into this one and with some tough fixtures coming up then it could well get a bit worse yet.

Running with this
 
How many times do you intend to keep asking for something that's already been given, in detail, several times, and you've even (incorrectly) argued about it. Are you a goldfish?
Until you have answered it. Your constant evasion speaks volumes. I have seen a remarkable post where you "proved" we would have finished 5th IF you ignore the bad run, change some other results and add an imaginary extra point from somewhere.

Now, when Liverpool finished 5th and qualified for the CL it was only because tey had won the competition the previous year. 5th place does not normally, nor ever again will, qualify for the CL because they changed the rules. So. Can you just show us all how you think our form was CL last season?

I won't be holding my breath.
 
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Poor performances and results over a sustained period of time can't be ignored or swept under the carpet like. Don't give a shit if it runs into 2 separate seasons or not, the Sunderland fans I know have just about had it with Bruce. He's under severe pressure because the malaise of last season has continued into this one and with some tough fixtures coming up then it could well get a bit worse yet.

It is a shame then that not more Sunderland fans are running the club.

The Sunderland fans may have had it with Bruce but we sadly cannot say the same for Ellis Short. And that is why though you and I think the dreadful prolonged string of under-performances and lack of a decent points haul from those games cannot be ignored or swept under the carpet, Ellis certainly has done a good job of sweeping it under the carpet.

If the form over the last year really has gotten to Ellis he would have demanded something be done before now. We wouldn't be in the position we are in had Ellis had dealt with Bruce in the way we would like to before now.
 
Until you have answered it. Your constant evasion speaks volumes. I have seen a remarkable post where you "proved" we would have finished 5th IF you ignore the bad run, change some other results and add an imaginary extra point from somewhere.

Now, when Liverpool finished 5th and qualified for the CL it was only because tey had won the competition the previous year. 5th place does not normally, nor ever again will, qualify for the CL because they changed the rules. So. Can you just show us all how you think our form was CL last season?

I won't be holding my breath.

There is no evasion, I've just pointed you back to where I showed it, which you claimed not to have seen and, but refer to. I'm not saying that 5th qualifies for the CL I'm saying that that form put us in CL contention, just as "promotion form" puts you in contention for promotion. Two more goals vs Arsenal, and we'd have finished more or less equal with them, that's hardly not being in the frame. ;)

If anyone's constantly evading it's you.The point ( for the 100th time) is that the bad run happened for specific, extraordinary reasons, and without them/it, we'd have been in the race for a CL spot, and in a Europa League spot, not to mention having the best finishing position in your entire life (assuming advanced years isn't the reason for your continually getting facts wrong).

Do you accept that or not? I won't be holding my breath for a straight answer.

Man City?

Aye we're just like them. :lol:
 
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Gyan turned up unfit, all part of the want away. Prior to that, with a partner, he was a good player. Bramble's also a good player, but had to form a new partnership with Brown. Doesn't alter the fact that they have to be replaced,

We don't lack a left side, we lack a left midfielder. As I said, and as you know, that's been in the works. Rich, that you whinge about 12 signings and then about not having 13.






:lol: I was going to reply to the whole thing, but that killed me.

Keane moved us up and left us in danger, Bruce is also moving us up and so far hasn't. I don't see how you can approve the staff turnover of one, and complain about the lesser turnover of the other, particularly when the latter had to get rid of the shite left by the former.

I'm not saying Bruce didn't have to sign a large number of players - when he 1st arrived. But he inherited a side containing solid players like of Jones, Gordon, Ferdinand, Malbranque, Bardsley and Richardson. You could also throw in Whitehead and Collins who were solid for us. I'm not saying these players were world beaters, but it's the backbone of a decent squad. All that was needed was for Bruce to add his own players, which he did. Cattermole, Bent, Mensah, Da Silva, Cana, Turner, Zenden and Campbell all came in, and all added to the squad which was already here. Hutton also arrived in January. We finished 13th, so all that was really needed was to tweak the squad a little and get rid of some of the deadwood which Keane did leave.

Jones, Cana, Fulop, Da Silva and Bent were the bigger players to leave over the season. There were various reasons, Bent and Cana more than likely for the money. Da Silva didn't settle. All 3 were Bruce's signings. In came 9 more players, with 2 more in January. So from needing to tweak the squad, we sell 5 main squad players and bring in 11. 5 of those on loan. We start well. Bruce tells us that the summer will bring about only tweaking, quality not quantity. but the last 5 months of the season are quite poor, and we scrape into 10th. Suddenly 4 of the 5 loanees are gone. Gyan wants away. We lose Henderson, Zenden, Malbranque, Ferdinand and another Bruce signing who failed to settle in Riveros. We bring in 12. And the squad is still lacking in plenty of areas.

Compare this to Keane, who inherited a squad who had been relegated with 15 points and were now sat bottom of the Championship. He signed players to get us up. Achieved. Once up, he signed players to keep us up. Achieved. He then tried to sign players like Diouf, Chimbonda and Cisse to push us on. This failed, Keane spat his dummy out and walked. We survived by the skin of our teeth. The point I'm making is Keane took over a side lacking fight, quality and confidence. His signings were required to get us out of a division. His next signings were required to keep us in that division. This usually requires a large number of incoming players.

Bruce took over a side which had been in the league for 2 seasons. It had some good solid players at this level. Yes, when a new manager takes over you expect a large number of incomings initially. But to still be doing so 2 years down the line smacks of someone who has no direction, and thinks that if he just buys a shitload of players every year he can appeal for time and hope these players fall into a team to save him. At the moment, this isn't working.

There is no evasion, I've just pointed you back to where I showed it, which you claimed not to have seen and, but refer to. I'm not saying that 5th qualifies for the CL I'm saying that that form put us in CL contention, just as "promotion form" puts you in contention for promotion. Two more goals vs Arsenal, and we'd have finished more or less equal with them, that's hardly not being in the frame. ;)

If anyone's constantly evading it's you.The point ( for the 100th time) is that the bad run happened for specific, extraordinary reasons, and without them/it, we'd have been in the race for a CL spot, and in a Europa League spot, not to mention having the best finishing position in your entire life (assuming advanced years isn't the reason for your continually getting facts wrong).

Do you accept that or not? I won't be holding my breath for a straight answer.



Aye we're just like them. :lol:

Yes, we had injuries. But so did Everton, they didn't moan on about them though. Their manager didn't come out and say that the players that were in the side were only there because of injuries to others. Nor did their manager keep throwing in players who clearly weren't fit, and wonder why injuries reoccurred.

Also, we had a huge winless run the season before, without the injuries though. How do you know this run of form would not happen again?
 
This is an appeal to those forum users who are so full of venom towards our manager .

Please take a little time to step back and count your blessings . Think where the club was , or perhaps you have not been around long enough to remember ? Begin to focus your attention on supporting Sunderland AFC not attacking an individual . You will feel better , you will enjoy your football more and be more willing and able to give vocal support to the players in red and white stripes .

The attack on Steve Bruce is making us the laughing stock of the football world . My contacts throughout England ( and in Newcastle ) cant believe the ignorance ( that sums it up ) , short sightedness , fickleness and hatred demonstrated by a minority of so called Sunderland supporters .

Steve Bruce is a good bloke , passionate for success at Sunderland and I believe will prove to be the best manager we have had . Steve Bruce is held in high esteem by football managers . I firmly believe that at the end of the next eight game period we will be in the top eight .If this is the case then I will be a very happy man . I look forward to getting behind the club at the next game as I have done for the last 50 years .

Should Steve Bruce go then I would imagine that the same ill feeling will go towards the next manager after a couple of years . A new manager does not guarantee success or better football .

I would suggest that the majority of the anti Steve Bruce brigade are of relatively young years and have been fed on a diet of sky highlights and the wonder of the Premeiership .

I would also suggest that many of the anti brigade take a crash course in English language . You will find that the English dictionary is full of some wonderful , thoughtful words which help you to explain your thoughts clearly and constructively . I am also amazed to at the number of experts we have out there obviouslly highly qualified in both coaching and finacial management . I wonder where I gain gain these qualifications within a couple of months ?
Ru a scout or just a bore from Byker?
 
Aye we're just like them. :lol:

Being like them has nothing to do with it. The claim you made that I argued against was that progression happens in steps. Progression is relative to how much you have in turnover per year. The more you make the more you are able to spend.
 
I pay my money to go and watch his team 'perform' and if I feel his management or the way the team are playing are unsatisfactory I have the right to be critical.
 
There is no evasion, I've just pointed you back to where I showed it, which you claimed not to have seen and, but refer to. I'm not saying that 5th qualifies for the CL I'm saying that that form put us in CL contention, just as "promotion form" puts you in contention for promotion. Two more goals vs Arsenal, and we'd have finished more or less equal with them, that's hardly not being in the frame. ;)
So not actual champions league form at all then. The sound of backtracking is deafening.
(assuming advanced years isn't the reason for your continually getting facts wrong).
One mistake isn't continually getting facts wrong. Cheeky cunt. That straight enough for you?
 
It's a shame this thread has descended into a points scoring contest, as opposed to a reasonably interesting discussion.
 
Some good points and some not so good!

Agree that we have problems on the field but the venom directed at our manager is way over the top. Bruce comes across as a decent, honest bloke who is ready to stay and fight to turn things around. Not many other managers do that. MON would be away by now. Have your say but back the lads on a match day at least.
 
Bruce comes across as a decent, honest bloke who is ready to stay and fight to turn things around. Not many other managers do that. MON would be away by now.
One, Steve Bruce is also coming across as somebody won't resign and jeopardise his compensation payoff for being sacked. The two perhaps are indistinguishable but since he has not shown such loyalty to his previous clubs, has such a long lucrative contract here and apparently hates the fans too I know where my hunch lies on that.

Two, MON has stayed for 4 years or longer at most of his professional clubs, famously turning down other jobs in the process. I don't know why you can be so sure he would have gone by now.

He also apparently won't talk to another club that currently has a a manager.
 
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