Americans see Jozy a lot differently than we do, don't they.


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What people take exception to is that some of the new American posters come on our forum, speak of Altidore as if he can do no wrong and criticise our club which I think is a bit disrespectful. I can see how it could be intimidating for the rest when people bite back, but you certainly wouldn't come across vitriolic abuse if you're level headed and show an interest in Sunderland rather than just Altidore.

I see your point. Well-said and my apologies if I've gone overboard on the Jozy-talk. I have been taking an interest in the team as a whole and I'll try to get it to the point where I support a team but have a favorite player.
 
You have hit the nail on the head. Jozy would have been great in MONs team. Irony is that Graham would be much more effective in Poyets team.

Am guessing you say that because of the way Swansea passed it and Poyet wants to do the same- putting the ball on a plate for him to finish? Graham got a lot of goals playing off the shoulder of the last man for them even when teams played deep. Nee one in their right mind sits back against us.[DOUBLEPOST=1388013948][/DOUBLEPOST]
i think im in the minority who rates him
the reason he gives up running after 70 mins is he busts his arse chasing everything and winning flick-ons and has nothing around him - id be pissed off to
really do rate the fella hope he comes good and proves a lot of people wrong, look at mannone at the start of the season - who rated him ?? not a lot , at all
hes been brilliant
different positions blah de blah but altidores got more pressur eon him for me - were solid at the back we need goals and its landing on jozy now - back him and he will be fine

Aye he does chase everything down and is an honest lad. That'd be great with midfielders that pile on and pressure the ball but ours don't. I just don't see him creating chances for himself and because he often ends up out wide running channels, he isn't gonna score many by getting on the end of crosses.
 
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As for Altidore, I actually thought he looked decent (isn) at the start of the season, more so under Di Canio when we were a lot more direct. For whatever reason he's been diabolic lately. It's easy to blame the midfield, we all know it's awful and has been for at least 3 years. In fact, the midfield created absolutely nothing when Bent was scoring here, we just tended to bypass it completely and lump it over the top for him to chase. Altidore hasn't helped himself though, his movement has been non-existent and again, it's easy to blame the midfield, but they need to have an outlet up front to play the ball to - it is the forwards job to look for space, work the channels, drag defenders out of position, etc. He's obviously low on confidence and doesn't really fit with Poyet's system, it's a mixture of things.

Diabolic lately? He wasn't diabolic against Chelsea he played quite well actually. Was he bad against Norwich? Absolutely. But, there is a common denominator here that even the most ardent Sunderland supporters just won't accept. The creative players behind the striker position are not doing their jobs well. Giacc has been a bust as far as I'm concerned and Ki lies to deep to be a true distributor of the ball to the forwards. With absolutely no wing play how can any reasonable supporter of this club blame the strikers for their lack of scoring this year?

Fletcher has a proven scoring record in this league and happen to think there's a reason he hasn't looked sharp either. You isolate any striker up top on this current squad and they are doomed to failure. It seems the 1 or 2 golden chances Fletch or Jozy have a match are intensely magnified if they miss and then it becomes a Fletch is off the pace, or Jozy is a plank with no touch argument. I understand with the premier league you have to take your chances when they come because of the level of defence here. But, the reality is getting a striker to come here who probably would finish those chances at a better % is highly unlikely to happen.

I get that a lot of people blame Jozy/Fletch for missed opportunities but having caught every match this year I say the bigger worries are central mid and linking between the backs and wide players... until that situation is improved I say cut the strikers some slack... regardless of who it is up top.
 
Diabolic lately? He wasn't diabolic against Chelsea he played quite well actually. Was he bad against Norwich? Absolutely. But, there is a common denominator here that even the most ardent Sunderland supporters just won't accept. The creative players behind the striker position are not doing their jobs well. Giacc has been a bust as far as I'm concerned and Ki lies to deep to be a true distributor of the ball to the forwards. With absolutely no wing play how can any reasonable supporter of this club blame the strikers for their lack of scoring this year?

Fletcher has a proven scoring record in this league and happen to think there's a reason he hasn't looked sharp either. You isolate any striker up top on this current squad and they are doomed to failure. It seems the 1 or 2 golden chances Fletch or Jozy have a match are intensely magnified if they miss and then it becomes a Fletch is off the pace, or Jozy is a plank with no touch argument. I understand with the premier league you have to take your chances when they come because of the level of defence here. But, the reality is getting a striker to come here who probably would finish those chances at a better % is highly unlikely to happen.

I get that a lot of people blame Jozy/Fletch for missed opportunities but having caught every match this year I say the bigger worries are central mid and linking between the backs and wide players... until that situation is improved I say cut the strikers some slack... regardless of who it is up top.

It's laughable to say "even the most ardent Sunderland supporters won't accept" that the midfield is shite, it's been by far the most debated, most criticised topic over the past 3 years! We all know the midfield is woeful, Gardner and Larsson are slated on here every day. It's well established that Johnson hasn't performed, Colback creates little, etc. The problems run far deeper than Giaccherini and Ki who have been relative bright spots compared to the dross before them. Thank god you won't have seen much of David Vaughan or the glory days of Dean Whitehead.

He isn't being criticised for missing changes or not scoring though. I think we're actually fairly tolerant of strikers missing chances, mainly because we're so used to creating nothing anyway that we get a bit excited when we do create something. Kenwyne Jones couldn't strike a ball properly to save his life and had a far poorer midfield behind him but was loved here in his first season because of what else he brought to the team. It's Altidore's lack of movement and clumsiness that frustrates people. He's 6ft odd and well built, why was every pass towards him cut out by the defender against Spurs, Chelsea in the cup and Norwich? He doesn't seem to have the natural instinct or intelligence off the ball, it's the subtle movements off the ball to drag defenders out of position that set strikers apart at this level.

I actually like Altidore and think there's a decent prospect in there. I thought he showed glimpses of the above earlier in the season and is clearly short on confidence at the moment, so please don't think I'm a 'hater' or that I'm blaming him for all our woes. He's been shocking lately though, I'm not sure what you want us to say? Like I said before, he gets plenty of encouragement at the match, his name is sung and cheered and we're all desperate to do well, what you see on here isn't a reflection of what happens at the ground.
 
Blah blah blah.

Jozy isn't as amazing as some of the American fanboys on here think he is. He's also not as atrocious as some of you think. The reality is he's somewhere in the middle. A useful striker that can thrive in the right situation. Obviously, grinding out a relegation battle for a below-mediocre (not an insult, just the truth) club isn't that situation.

Hopefully he turns it around this season and scores a handful of goals then goes to Brazil and succeeds. Maybe Sunderland can get their transfer fee back, who knows?
 
He isn't being criticised for missing changes or not scoring though. I think we're actually fairly tolerant of strikers missing chances, mainly because we're so used to creating nothing anyway that we get a bit excited when we do create something. Kenwyne Jones couldn't strike a ball properly to save his life and had a far poorer midfield behind him but was loved here in his first season because of what else he brought to the team. It's Altidore's lack of movement and clumsiness that frustrates people.

This is where we agree to disagree then because I think it's quite the opposite actually. Jozy gets 3 or 4 threads on here during matchday everytime he takes a wrong touch or misses on a chance. He's either the american Heskey or just an american soccer plank with no idea how to play the game correctly. Jozy does sometimes and very predictably become moody or indifferent whenever he isn't being involved in the attack on a decent or not basis. He improved that a bit at AZ but you can clearly see his is a bit tempermental when things aren't going his way... people confuse that with him not caring but its quite the opposite actually.

As bad as the mid situation here is it's nowhere near as bad as the Bullard, Geovanni nightmare he dealt with at Hull a few years ago and although his scoring record was terrible he still had good matches here and there. Those who say he may not have the natural instinct for goal I'd not hesitate to agree with. Jozy is a 4-4-2 man through and through.. his best national team performances in the past always came with a quicker pacy striker by his side.

I'm not a rose colored glasses Jozy fan and this may end up the case of being the wrong fit at Sunderland. But, I've grown to enjoy following this club whether he plays or not so I try to stay objective when it comes to who's really to blame... and overall I think it's the entire squad with an emphasis on the mid/wings. Jozy/Fletch should have knicked in a few more this year but they are not the primary scapegoats I see a lot of people on here making them out to be.

I've never seen so many wildy off target blasts from a squad desperate to create in sometime until the Norwich match (which was there for the taking)... something else is at play here with the squad as it seems a lot of players are playing for themselves and not the club.
 
This is where we agree to disagree then because I think it's quite the opposite actually. Jozy gets 3 or 4 threads on here during matchday everytime he takes a wrong touch or misses on a chance. He's either the american Heskey or just an american soccer plank with no idea how to play the game correctly. Jozy does sometimes and very predictably become moody or indifferent whenever he isn't being involved in the attack on a decent or not basis. He improved that a bit at AZ but you can clearly see his is a bit tempermental when things aren't going his way... people confuse that with him not caring but its quite the opposite actually.

As bad as the mid situation here is it's nowhere near as bad as the Bullard, Geovanni nightmare he dealt with at Hull a few years ago and although his scoring record was terrible he still had good matches here and there. Those who say he may not have the natural instinct for goal I'd not hesitate to agree with. Jozy is a 4-4-2 man through and through.. his best national team performances in the past always came with a quicker pacy striker by his side.

I'm not a rose colored glasses Jozy fan and this may end up the case of being the wrong fit at Sunderland. But, I've grown to enjoy following this club whether he plays or not so I try to stay objective when it comes to who's really to blame... and overall I think it's the entire squad with an emphasis on the mid/wings. Jozy/Fletch should have knicked in a few more this year but they are not the primary scapegoats I see a lot of people on here making them out to be.

I've never seen so many wildy off target blasts from a squad desperate to create in sometime until the Norwich match (which was there for the taking)... something else is at play here with the squad as it seems a lot of players are playing for themselves and not the club.

Broadly agree with a lot of that, but didn't he play in a 4-3-3 at AZ? I think he's reasonably suited for that role, as some have said, he does a better job of linking play than Fletcher.
 
Diabolic lately? He wasn't diabolic against Chelsea he played quite well actually. Was he bad against Norwich? Absolutely. But, there is a common denominator here that even the most ardent Sunderland supporters just won't accept. The creative players behind the striker position are not doing their jobs well. Giacc has been a bust as far as I'm concerned and Ki lies to deep to be a true distributor of the ball to the forwards. With absolutely no wing play how can any reasonable supporter of this club blame the strikers for their lack of scoring this year?

Fletcher has a proven scoring record in this league and happen to think there's a reason he hasn't looked sharp either. You isolate any striker up top on this current squad and they are doomed to failure. It seems the 1 or 2 golden chances Fletch or Jozy have a match are intensely magnified if they miss and then it becomes a Fletch is off the pace, or Jozy is a plank with no touch argument. I understand with the premier league you have to take your chances when they come because of the level of defence here. But, the reality is getting a striker to come here who probably would finish those chances at a better % is highly unlikely to happen.

I get that a lot of people blame Jozy/Fletch for missed opportunities but having caught every match this year I say the bigger worries are central mid and linking between the backs and wide players... until that situation is improved I say cut the strikers some slack... regardless of who it is up top.

i don't care it's it messi who was playing in midfield they would not know which run Jozy was going to make. Jozy is a one dimensional player... He needs to be facing goal with the ball at his feet. The Poyet way does not promote that. Jozy should be setting up as many goals as he scores

Fletcher is just unfit/ devoid of confidence or still struggling with the style of play ... Can't work it out.

Both players are better suited to counter attacking teams on the face of it albeit I would have bet my house on fletch bring right for this style before now.[DOUBLEPOST=1388042312][/DOUBLEPOST]
Exactly this.

Further, as in the US we get far more televised Premier League games than MLS games, following players is easier. It's completely weird to me how easy it is to see a PL game in the US than in Europe - I have a basic cable package and on any given weekend, between NBC, NBCSN, FS1, I have about 5-6 televised PL games to choose from, as well as the rest with free HD streaming.

Anyways - with regards to Yanks on the board, I suspect you'll see fewer and fewer once they encounter the level of vitriolic, frothing at the mouth kind of discourse. Which I guess will make the non-Yanks here happy? No new supporters, etc... as I've said before, if you have no ties to a specific location and you start supporting a team because of a player, 8 times out of ten you end up supporting the team even after the player is gone. Maybe you find supporting one player annoying, but perhaps it's equally annoying to specifically cheer against a player (who's on your f***ing team.. wouldn't you want him to do well????) simply because you don't like the people supporting him, or because you're a contrarian, or an old fart, or just a flat out jerk.

As far as how Jozy's doing... not well. But, not a plank, by any chance. You figure if you finish one in four chances as a striker, you're doing moderately well. When was the last game either Jozy or Fletcher had 4 chances? They get maybe 1-2 chances each game and they're both sooo low on confidence and in poor form... and to expect them to finish those 1-2 chances per game is elevating them to super striker status in your expectations... which is simply unreasonable.


Cut through the crap... All our strikers are not performing. General consensus of the board of the media agreed with that .... So regardless of whether people come from Nepal or New a york they are not going to be told different just to placate others.
That the response of some is vitriolic , you either have to ignore dont respond to or simply move on... Nature of the beast.

For me we need to accept that the strikers are struggling with the style of play. Their movement is not right. That the delivery into the box is also questionable is not very helpful, but I figure that would fix itself if forwards had the right movement. Tell them to watch Suarez for 90 mins - unbelievable movement, perpetual motion.
 
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Broadly agree with a lot of that, but didn't he play in a 4-3-3 at AZ? I think he's reasonably suited for that role, as some have said, he does a better job of linking play than Fletcher.

He did but as many have pointed out the dutch league is all attack and not much else... a lot more freedom and time on the ball. Even Jozy who's not a natural target man could play upfront by himself there.
 
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