Americans see Jozy a lot differently than we do, don't they.


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It's not an American thing in general. You don't see it in other sports, for instance.

You have to understand: there is no quality professional football in America. What are we going to follow, the MLS? It's garbage.

So if you're a footy fan in the U.S., you have to look elsewhere. There's international football, but CONCACAF leaves something to be desired (that's an understatement), and anyway how often does the national team play an actual meaningful game? Not often.

Some U.S. footy fans pick one of the financial big names and just watch them. My mate follows Arsenal, for no reason other than he picked them out when he was a lad. But many of us don't want to do that, just be a bandwagon fan for the "good" teams.

In the meantime, the only footballers we "know" are the ones we've watched on the national team. So we watch them, and hope they come good in the "real" professional ranks.

Is Jozy our super-duper-favorite footballer, EVER, and all that? Nah, not really. Not for most. He just happens to be the only decent American in the prem at the moment.

And by the way: UncleSam aside, what most Americans actually think of Jozy is that he MIGHT be DECENT. Not that he IS GREAT, mind, just that he MIGHT be OK. And we're hoping he is OK. We are well-aware that the window on our "might" is closing quickly, and that it's starting to look like he just doesn't have it.

And another "by the way": I started following Sunderland in August because of Jozy. Again, not that I'm some kind of huge Alt-adorer, just curious how he'd do. I've gradually become hooked. When Ki scored against Chelsea I was streaming the game on a computer, and I jumped out of my seat and shouted, pumping my fist. (Nearly broke the damn computer.)

I want Catts to find some discipline...he's got some ability, if he can just keep the ugly tackles out of his game. I want Colback to come good--I like the lad. I want Fletcher to shake off whatever's ailing him and find some form. I want Ki to be signed permanently. I want Giach to turn out to look like an Italian international mainstay. I want Wes to stay fit and young for 4 more years.

And, yes, I want Jozy to gain some confidence and look like a prem-level striker that one wouldn't be ashamed of.

Shut up, Hammie. You should watch MLS too. :cry:

Good post, but you did leave off that most Americans didn't want Jozy to come to Sunderland in the first place, which might be one of the reasons Americans are quick to blame Sunderland..
 
Shut up, Hammie. You should watch MLS too. :cry:

Good post, but you did leave off that most Americans didn't want Jozy to come to Sunderland in the first place, which might be one of the reasons Americans are quick to blame Sunderland..
Some were deluded enough to think he was going to join a top club. He's never ever going to be at that level.
 
Some were deluded enough to think he was going to join a top club. He's never ever going to be at that level.

There probably are. I was hoping he would stay away from England, and go play in Italy or France or something. I don't think Americans should play in England until they are established in one of the big 4 leagues on the continent first.
 
Shut up, Hammie. You should watch MLS too. :cry:
I do, sometimes. Couple things, though:

1. I have six kids, ranging in age from newborn to 12 years. I have to be somewhat selective in my hobbies--family first anarl.
2. The older kids play "soccer," and a couple of them are serious about it. If I'm only going to have a couple free hours on the weekend, and if my kids are going to watch a match with me, I'd rather them see a premier match than an MLS one. Afraid they'll learn the wrong habits from MLS.
3. I live in Tennessee. There's no natural MLS team for me to follow (nor even one that's remotely close). I'd have to pick one for more or less random reasons, and if I'm gonna do that, why not just jump all the way to the premiership? 'Specially now that it's on the TV, and on Saturday mornings no less (when my kids rarely have games of their own).
 
I do, sometimes. Couple things, though:

1. I have six kids, ranging in age from newborn to 12 years. I have to be somewhat selective in my hobbies--family first anarl.
2. The older kids play "soccer," and a couple of them are serious about it. If I'm only going to have a couple free hours on the weekend, and if my kids are going to watch a match with me, I'd rather them see a premier match than an MLS one. Afraid they'll learn the wrong habits from MLS.
3. I live in Tennessee. There's no natural MLS team for me to follow (nor even one that's remotely close). I'd have to pick one for more or less random reasons, and if I'm gonna do that, why not just jump all the way to the premiership? 'Specially now that it's on the TV, and on Saturday mornings no less (when my kids rarely have games of their own).

Fair enough. You definitely have you hands full so you are exempt from watching MLS. If I was going to pick one I would pick the premiership as well. :)
 
There probably are. I was hoping he would stay away from England, and go play in Italy or France or something. I don't think Americans should play in England until they are established in one of the big 4 leagues on the continent first.
There's an absolute world of difference between France and Italy. In Italy the defensive game would ruin altidore, its much much tougher forca striker there than England. He'd be decent in France though, the standard is more like Holland.
 
Add in his anticipation is poor and I totally agree with this.
If he was a white jock we had signed from stranraar hebwould not get the slack he has. Look jow quickly everyone was all over Graham
You'll find it's mainly the same people slating graham who is slating altidore
 
I disagree
There's an absolute world of difference between France and Italy. In Italy the defensive game would ruin altidore, its much much tougher forca striker there than England. He'd be decent in France though, the standard is more like Holland.
I disagree with your opinion of Italy I honestly think he would do well in Italy. Speed is at a premium in the league. And the back lines in Italy are slower. I think he would excel because of the style of play in Italy.
 
i think im in the minority who rates him
the reason he gives up running after 70 mins is he busts his arse chasing everything and winning flick-ons and has nothing around him - id be pissed off to
really do rate the fella hope he comes good and proves a lot of people wrong, look at mannone at the start of the season - who rated him ?? not a lot , at all
hes been brilliant
different positions blah de blah but altidores got more pressur eon him for me - were solid at the back we need goals and its landing on jozy now - back him and he will be fine
 
Of course they will rate him higher, they have seen his good games and his display of technique scoring first time shots, volleys and free kicks.

It's the same as wen our fans can't understand why the Americans don't rate fletcher. They haven't seen his best play, which we haven't for 12 months either but we have seen it and know it's there.

I don't know why people find it so hard to grasp.
 
I do, sometimes. Couple things, though:

1. I have six kids, ranging in age from newborn to 12 years. I have to be somewhat selective in my hobbies--family first anarl.
2. The older kids play "soccer," and a couple of them are serious about it. If I'm only going to have a couple free hours on the weekend, and if my kids are going to watch a match with me, I'd rather them see a premier match than an MLS one. Afraid they'll learn the wrong habits from MLS.
3. I live in Tennessee. There's no natural MLS team for me to follow (nor even one that's remotely close). I'd have to pick one for more or less random reasons, and if I'm gonna do that, why not just jump all the way to the premiership? 'Specially now that it's on the TV, and on Saturday mornings no less (when my kids rarely have games of their own).

Those all make some sense, but I'll give a different perspective on No.2. We live fairly close to Vancouver, in the USL/NASL days, if traffic was light, we could be at the stadium in less than an hour. Had season tickets for four years at that level and the first two in MLS. Even at the lower level, watching helped my oldest son immensely. He saw different styles, he saw guys he wanted to model himself after, he could hear the chatter on the field because we were so close. A low level is still a good enough level to pick all that up. Obviously, not being anywhere close to a MLS team, you can't get there, but seeing even a PDL team live might help your kids.

Conversely, because he watches Sunderland more than anyone else in the Prem, thebiggest inspiration he's drawn over the years came from A. Julio Arca, and b. The flying tackles of the Cana/Cattermole midfield combo. And it was the latter he incorporated into his playing style. :rolleyes:
 
Given that MLS is not even 20 years old, loyalties to the national team still tend to be far stronger than to individual clubs. Guys going to big clubs in Europe are seen as making good in a way that doesn't apply in England.

Mind, it also seems the typical Canadian attitude about Hargreaves, at least on the Whitecaps board, is that he was a traitor who should be burnt at the stake.

Exactly this.

Further, as in the US we get far more televised Premier League games than MLS games, following players is easier. It's completely weird to me how easy it is to see a PL game in the US than in Europe - I have a basic cable package and on any given weekend, between NBC, NBCSN, FS1, I have about 5-6 televised PL games to choose from, as well as the rest with free HD streaming.

Anyways - with regards to Yanks on the board, I suspect you'll see fewer and fewer once they encounter the level of vitriolic, frothing at the mouth kind of discourse. Which I guess will make the non-Yanks here happy? No new supporters, etc... as I've said before, if you have no ties to a specific location and you start supporting a team because of a player, 8 times out of ten you end up supporting the team even after the player is gone. Maybe you find supporting one player annoying, but perhaps it's equally annoying to specifically cheer against a player (who's on your f***ing team.. wouldn't you want him to do well????) simply because you don't like the people supporting him, or because you're a contrarian, or an old fart, or just a flat out jerk.

As far as how Jozy's doing... not well. But, not a plank, by any chance. You figure if you finish one in four chances as a striker, you're doing moderately well. When was the last game either Jozy or Fletcher had 4 chances? They get maybe 1-2 chances each game and they're both sooo low on confidence and in poor form... and to expect them to finish those 1-2 chances per game is elevating them to super striker status in your expectations... which is simply unreasonable.
 
I disagree

I disagree with your opinion of Italy I honestly think he would do well in Italy. Speed is at a premium in the league. And the back lines in Italy are slower. I think he would excel because of the style of play in Italy.

The defences in Italy are the best in the world and destroy all but the best foreign strikers. Its all about defence first there, thats why its so slow. Ypu never get a striker scoring like suarez is now. Not ever. Speed doesn't matter, they have players, just the ball rately gets behind the defence.

It would be excruciatingly bad watching him play there. And you think we are critical in england, they take it to new level in southern Europe.
 
The defences in Italy are the best in the world and destroy all but the best foreign strikers. Its all about defence first there, thats why its so slow. Ypu never get a striker scoring like suarez is now. Not ever. Speed doesn't matter, they have players, just the ball rately gets behind the defence.

It would be excruciatingly bad watching him play there. And you think we are critical in england, they take it to new level in southern Europe.
I agree to an extent, I believe the style of play benefits him more in Italy.I've seen him play two games on international stage against Italy and he played pretty well. But I'll be honest I also thought it would have benefited him to go to Germany or Italy before PL. But our opinions don't really matter when it comes down to it lol
 
Exactly this.

Further, as in the US we get far more televised Premier League games than MLS games, following players is easier. It's completely weird to me how easy it is to see a PL game in the US than in Europe - I have a basic cable package and on any given weekend, between NBC, NBCSN, FS1, I have about 5-6 televised PL games to choose from, as well as the rest with free HD streaming.

Anyways - with regards to Yanks on the board, I suspect you'll see fewer and fewer once they encounter the level of vitriolic, frothing at the mouth kind of discourse. Which I guess will make the non-Yanks here happy? No new supporters, etc... as I've said before, if you have no ties to a specific location and you start supporting a team because of a player, 8 times out of ten you end up supporting the team even after the player is gone. Maybe you find supporting one player annoying, but perhaps it's equally annoying to specifically cheer against a player (who's on your f***ing team.. wouldn't you want him to do well????) simply because you don't like the people supporting him, or because you're a contrarian, or an old fart, or just a flat out jerk.

As far as how Jozy's doing... not well. But, not a plank, by any chance. You figure if you finish one in four chances as a striker, you're doing moderately well. When was the last game either Jozy or Fletcher had 4 chances? They get maybe 1-2 chances each game and they're both sooo low on confidence and in poor form... and to expect them to finish those 1-2 chances per game is elevating them to super striker status in your expectations... which is simply unreasonable.

If you're suggesting that is the case with Altidore then that is complete bollocks. His name is sung every week, he is cheered along with the rest of the players. There is no agenda against him, everybody is desperate for him to come good. Don't take the comments made on here as a representation of the support at the ground, this is a place to vent and you're always going to see extreme views as we look doomed and Altidore is under performing, it's a tense and frustrating time. Empty vessels make the biggest noise and all that.

You'd see the flip side of that if we were performing well - in the last few years we've had influxes of fans from Ireland, Ghana and Trinidad supporting specific players who've been welcomed with open arms. There's been groups of each actually came over to Sunderland to go to the match, groups of Belgium supporters used to go to Sunderland matches a couple of times a season when Mignolet was here, some Sunderland fans from here actually went out of their way to support Ghana at Wembley wearing Ghana tops against England a few years ago (which I thought was ridiculous for the record). On this board alone there are American posters like I Claudio, Burch and a few others who've been here and supported us for years and seen both sides, there is a poster from Denmark with some bizarre sexual fetishes (;)) who travels to Sunderland when he can and meets posters from here as if they've been best friends for years. There were even parties organised with guest appearances from former players for a group of Portland Timbers fans who'd befriended some Sunderland supporters when we played them in a friendly a few years ago.

What people take exception to is that some of the new American posters come on our forum, speak of Altidore as if he can do no wrong and criticise our club which I think is a bit disrespectful. I can see how it could be intimidating for the rest when people bite back, but you certainly wouldn't come across vitriolic abuse if you're level headed and show an interest in Sunderland rather than just Altidore.

As for Altidore, I actually thought he looked decent (isn) at the start of the season, more so under Di Canio when we were a lot more direct. For whatever reason he's been diabolic lately. It's easy to blame the midfield, we all know it's awful and has been for at least 3 years. In fact, the midfield created absolutely nothing when Bent was scoring here, we just tended to bypass it completely and lump it over the top for him to chase. Altidore hasn't helped himself though, his movement has been non-existent and again, it's easy to blame the midfield, but they need to have an outlet up front to play the ball to - it is the forwards job to look for space, work the channels, drag defenders out of position, etc. He's obviously low on confidence and doesn't really fit with Poyet's system, it's a mixture of things.
 
Want him to do well but his first touch is a pass and his movement is f***ing shite, I can't question his commitment and workrate i just don't think technically hes very good, he's also shot for confidence, which doesn't help..
 
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