Americans and Sports


It's perverse, as teams at the bottom are rewarded with the highest draft picks. Supporters actually get upset when a team at 0-14 go on a 2 match win streak to end at 2-14 and miss out on the top draft pick (the next super QB coming out of college).
This bit fascinates me knowing nothing about it. Do these draft picks have absolutely no say on who they play for? If that's the case presumably no say on their pay either as they are not free to negotiate with other teams? It all seems a remarkable restriction on freedom from a country that supposedly prides itself on it to an outsider looking in.

How long are they contracted for and do they get to exercise greater freedom on future moves?
 
I've looked into this and it turns out American sport is shit. Rounders for the fat lads, putting a ball into a ten foot high hole for the seven footers. Charging into people dressed as a sumo wrestler for the ones too talentless for those two and ice hockey for the rest.

All run in a system that means the league owns who plays so even if you are the best in the world if they don't agree you don't play.

Most sports you just play them and win and their opinion no longer matters but not for most of their shite
Brilliant research and findings. If you don't feel the need to beat someone to death after your team loses, then you haven't got a soul :eek:
 
This bit fascinates me knowing nothing about it. Do these draft picks have absolutely no say on who they play for? If that's the case presumably no say on their pay either as they are not free to negotiate with other teams? It all seems a remarkable restriction on freedom from a country that supposedly prides itself on it to an outsider looking in.

How long are they contracted for and do they get to exercise greater freedom on future moves?
A few have refused to play for certain teams, most famously Eli Manning refused to play for the Chargers after they drafted him, they ended up trading him to the Giants.

Typically the higher you are drafted the more you are going to be paid. 1st round picks in the NFL get 4 year contracts, and the teams have an option to extend it by a year. Then after that the team have an option called the "franchise tag" where they can essentially pay top dollar to extend the contract by a further year. Unlike football, the NFL contracts are heavily weighted in the teams' favour, which I suppose makes for a more competitive and equal sport.
 
A few have refused to play for certain teams, most famously Eli Manning refused to play for the Chargers after they drafted him, they ended up trading him to the Giants.

Typically the higher you are drafted the more you are going to be paid. 1st round picks in the NFL get 4 year contracts, and the teams have an option to extend it by a year. Then after that the team have an option called the "franchise tag" where they can essentially pay top dollar to extend the contract by a further year. Unlike football, the NFL contracts are heavily weighted in the teams' favour, which I suppose makes for a more competitive and equal sport.
So is the pay of the draft picks set by the NFL according to when they are picked rather than the teams themselves?
 
I've looked into this and it turns out American sport is shit. Rounders for the fat lads, putting a ball into a ten foot high hole for the seven footers. Charging into people dressed as a sumo wrestler for the ones too talentless for those two and ice hockey for the rest.

All run in a system that means the league owns who plays so even if you are the best in the world if they don't agree you don't play.

Most sports you just play them and win and their opinion no longer matters but not for most of their shite
I have to concur
 
So is the pay of the draft picks set by the NFL according to when they are picked rather than the teams themselves?
There is some negotiation but it got tightened up about 10 years ago, and now there's a rookie pay scale and a rookie salary cap for each team. Before that teams were giving high picks massive salaries before they'd even played in the NFL, and if they were shite it was like a noose around their neck because of the salary cap.
 
So, in the draft, the worst team gets to pick the best player put in the draft ?

Surely the player wouldn't want to go to the worst team if he was ambitious which most yank players are ?

If the player /agent know their worth, what happens if the worst team can't afford or won't accede to the players/agents demands ?

I've been to us soccer and baseball, and it's totally different. Much more of a social occasion (car park barbies for example) than one of sporting fervour, passion etc.

Whilst over the years I've had plenty of weekends ruined by a bad result for Safc, I just can't imagine not being bothered in the slightest by a loss.
 
So, in the draft, the worst team gets to pick the best player put in the draft ?

Surely the player wouldn't want to go to the worst team if he was ambitious which most yank players are ?

If the player /agent know their worth, what happens if the worst team can't afford or won't accede to the players/agents demands ?

I've been to us soccer and baseball, and it's totally different. Much more of a social occasion (car park barbies for example) than one of sporting fervour, passion etc.

Whilst over the years I've had plenty of weekends ruined by a bad result for Safc, I just can't imagine not being bothered in the slightest by a loss.
In the NFL the worst team today can quickly become one of the best, because of the draft and salary caps. So it's not so much like here where players will always leave a low end team for a Manchester United etc.

For example in 2011 the Panthers had the 1st pick and the Broncos had the 2nd, because they were both shit. Then in 2015 they played each other in the super bowl. Worst to best in 4 years.
 
Can any of our US friends discuss the issue of season tickets. Are they common over there? Are prices so prohibitive that you only go once a season, make a day of it with a tailgate party and obviously splash out at the mega store?

They are very common. For a lot of NFL teams, and even a handful of NBA and NHL teams, single-game tickets are very difficult to get. When the Vancouver Canucks were good a decade ago, 85 or 90 percent of the crowd was season tickets, and the signal game tickets for the whole season went on sale in early October and would be gone within a few hours.

I have season tickets for the Vancouver MLS lot, a path I started down when they were in the equivalent of the second division and I bought a 5-game pack so I had decent seats for Sunderland visiting about 15 years ago.
 
In the NFL the worst team today can quickly become one of the best, because of the draft and salary caps. So it's not so much like here where players will always leave a low end team for a Manchester United etc.

For example in 2011 the Panthers had the 1st pick and the Broncos had the 2nd, because they were both shit. Then in 2015 they played each other in the super bowl. Worst to best in 4 years.
Imagine how i feel being a browns fan ;(
 
Some of our American based posters might be best placed to shed a bit more light on this, @burchmackem, @NYMackem, @njmackem etc...

With your various sports, franchises, conferences, teams moving across country etc - Do Americans actually get it? Are they just sports fans, or do they have supporters?

Take for instance when the Dodgers left Brooklyn - what the frig happened to their fans? Did they even have any? Were people upset?

More recently the Raiders have bounced from Oakland, to LA, back to Oakland, and now reside in a swanky new stadium in Las Vegas. This is a team with 3 Superbowls to it's name. Have all their fans bounced along with them? The ever faithful cross the Sierra Nevada every other week to cheer them on?

Do season ticket holders exist? Would Phase 3 ever be a thing?

Do grown men cry when success/abject failure rears it's head in the post-season?

Do fathers pass their loyalties onto their sons?

Are weekends completely ruined when their team loses?

Do they care?

- There have been a couple good documentaries about Baltimore after the Colts packed up the moving trucks in the middle of the night and moved to Indianapolis 35 years or so ago. It did hit hard there. People wrote about Brooklyn losing the Dodgers for decades after. And I have friends in Seattle (I live a little bit north of there) who refuse to watch the NBA because the Sonics moved to Oklahoma City a little over a decade ago. The difference is that if the league puts a new team in, people will jump on it, the bitterness ends.

- Some cry, but not as many. And for me, Sunderland ruins my weekends more than any team over here.

- Loyalties to get passed on, but not as strongly. My father wasn't a huge team sports guy - seriously, he watched bowling, golf and NASCAR far more than any other sports. But I do think my experience is also colored by spending most of my life on the west coast, where the roots aren't as deep. Back east, the loyalties are stronger. My NBA loyalties shift over time - certain players, rarely megastars, who I enjoy watching. I have been loyal to the San Diego Padres in baseball since I was 7, but it's very surface, not that deep. Loyalties are stronger in the colleges.

The college thing really is closer to what football is like in England. Not for everyone, but in large sections of the country, it is life-and-death stuff. First of all, it's actually older than the NFL, and was a bigger deal at least through World War II, and probably to the end of the 1950s. Some of it is alumni loyalty, but it is also rooted in state pride. Take Nebraska football. No pro sports in the state, closest one is at least a 3-hour drive away. People there live for the college team - some of them drive six hours to Lincoln for games, and they've sold out every game since about 1962. Only some of those people actually attended the university. Most states, although there are exceptions, have either one or two major football schools. If it's one, then there's a sense of unity. If it's two, it might not quite be Sunderland v Scum, but in some places it approaches it, especially in the south.
 
- There have been a couple good documentaries about Baltimore after the Colts packed up the moving trucks in the middle of the night and moved to Indianapolis 35 years or so ago. It did hit hard there. People wrote about Brooklyn losing the Dodgers for decades after. And I have friends in Seattle (I live a little bit north of there) who refuse to watch the NBA because the Sonics moved to Oklahoma City a little over a decade ago. The difference is that if the league puts a new team in, people will jump on it, the bitterness ends.

- Some cry, but not as many. And for me, Sunderland ruins my weekends more than any team over here.

- Loyalties to get passed on, but not as strongly. My father wasn't a huge team sports guy - seriously, he watched bowling, golf and NASCAR far more than any other sports. But I do think my experience is also colored by spending most of my life on the west coast, where the roots aren't as deep. Back east, the loyalties are stronger. My NBA loyalties shift over time - certain players, rarely megastars, who I enjoy watching. I have been loyal to the San Diego Padres in baseball since I was 7, but it's very surface, not that deep. Loyalties are stronger in the colleges.

The college thing really is closer to what football is like in England. Not for everyone, but in large sections of the country, it is life-and-death stuff. First of all, it's actually older than the NFL, and was a bigger deal at least through World War II, and probably to the end of the 1950s. Some of it is alumni loyalty, but it is also rooted in state pride. Take Nebraska football. No pro sports in the state, closest one is at least a 3-hour drive away. People there live for the college team - some of them drive six hours to Lincoln for games, and they've sold out every game since about 1962. Only some of those people actually attended the university. Most states, although there are exceptions, have either one or two major football schools. If it's one, then there's a sense of unity. If it's two, it might not quite be Sunderland v Scum, but in some places it approaches it, especially in the south.

Hi mate. Don't think I have seen many posts from you but two top posts there. I had in my head that fans attended the odd game. rather than every game (I am thinking NFL here) which is great for the club as fans will splurge on match day. I guess with stubhub this is still possible. This is why LFC have thousands of Thomas Cook seats in the mainstand - 100+ ticket, 100 on hospitality and another 100+ in the club shop. My only US team sports experience is the Yankees - got a ticket on stubhub for a bargain which gave me access to the Audi lounge. Only the hard core were watching everyone else was milling around, chatting. In fact I was watching the final of the cricket WC and the Super Over! It lacked the intensity of any football game I have been to.

Can you point me to a dummies guide for college football or write a bit yourself. When does it run? Number of teams? Format. Fancy giving it a watch. Could Nebraska be the team top watch.
 
Hi mate. Don't think I have seen many posts from you but two top posts there. I had in my head that fans attended the odd game. rather than every game (I am thinking NFL here) which is great for the club as fans will splurge on match day. I guess with stubhub this is still possible. This is why LFC have thousands of Thomas Cook seats in the mainstand - 100+ ticket, 100 on hospitality and another 100+ in the club shop. My only US team sports experience is the Yankees - got a ticket on stubhub for a bargain which gave me access to the Audi lounge. Only the hard core were watching everyone else was milling around, chatting. In fact I was watching the final of the cricket WC and the Super Over! It lacked the intensity of any football game I have been to.


Can you point me to a dummies guide for college football or write a bit yourself. When does it run? Number of teams? Format. Fancy giving it a watch. Could Nebraska be the team top watch.

Let me try. College football starts in late August, the main season wraps up around early December, most teams play a dozen games. There are also post-season games after that, more later.

There are a variety of levels, and I think close to 1,000 colleges with teams. The main level is NCAA Division I -FBS. That has about 130 teams in 10 leagues (more frequently called conferences). The leagues have some history - there are schools that have been in the same league together for over 100 years - but there was a big realignment about 25 years ago. Schools play about nine games in their league, and the rest in 'non-conference' games. Each league ends its season with a championship game between the top two teams - most leagues are divided into two regional divisions and the best record in each gets to the championship. Five of the leagues - The Southeastern Conference, the Atlantic Coast Conference, the Big Ten, the Big 12, and the Pac-12 - are considered the best leagues, and referred to as "the Power Five." These are the biggest programs, mostly from big state research institutions, with big stadiums. Roughly 15 of them, mostly in the SEC and Big 10, have stadiums of over 80,000 capacity.

During the regular season in autumn, nearly every Power Five game is televised, and a large chunk of the other FBS games are, as well. So on a typical Saturday in October, games start on television at about 9 a.m. Pacific, and don't end until 10 p.m. that night, and you usually have close to 40 or more to choose from. If I have a free Saturday, I'll typically watch 2 or 3 games in full, and parts of others.

The post-season is where it gets weird. It starts with those conference championship games mentioned earlier, played in early December. After that, a selection committee chooses the top four teams for a playoff for the national championship in early January. And if that seems strange, note that until the early 90s, the championship was unofficial and chosen by two separate polls, one of coaches, one of media. Teams who had a winning record and didn't make the top four typically get invited to a "Bowl" game, mostly played between Christmas and New Year's in warm-weather sites. It counts on a team's record, but it really a hyped up exhibition game. There are about 40 of those. There is discussion of expanding the playoff to eight schools - each of the Power Five champions would get an automatic spot, and the committee would chose the top champion from the other five leagues, plus two at-large teams. I would like this as my main team is Boise State, in Idaho. I didn't go there (I went to a Division II school), but my son and other relatives did. Boise State plays in the Mountain West, an FBS league not in the Power Five, and would be a regular contender for that sixth playoff berth. To be fair, there probably isn't a good way to account for all 130 teams, but there are lots of complaints about the present format.

The biggest teams lately are Alabama, Clemson and Ohio State. All have been in the playoff multiple years. Most of the Southeastern Conference, or SEC, is very strong, this is Alabama's league, and typically has four or five of the top 10 teams nationally. My 'second' team is South Carolina, for reasons that date back to the mid-1980s. They are in the SEC, but haven't been particularly good the last couple years. I can watch pretty much every Boise State and South Carolina game on TV. I've been to a handful of Boise State games, it's a 9-hour drive each way. South Carolina is 3 time zones away, hoping to fly back sometime in the next couple years. Playing to fly out to Wyoming in September to watch a game against Montana State - youngest son goes to school at Montana State, which plays at a lower level, and we have family friends that are Wyoming people.
The loyalty and passion is college football is probably the strongest of any US sport, especially in the south and midwest. It has it's quirky traditions of tailgates and chants and pre-game rituals. Some are corny, but they are mostly authentic. Louisiana State used to have a live Bengal tiger in a cage right by the tunnel where the opposing team ran out.

And as for Nebraska, their glory years have passed, been rough for them the last decade or so. They were a power from the 50s to the 90s. One of the stands behind the end zone looks a lot like the Roker End did, just with bench seats rather than terraces. I've been in the stadium, never seen a game there. It holds just over 80,000.

Probably more than you asked for, but once I got rolling, hard to stop.
 
During the regular season in autumn, nearly every Power Five game is televised, and a large chunk of the other FBS games are, as well. So on a typical Saturday in October, games start on television at about 9 a.m. Pacific, and don't end until 10 p.m. that night, and you usually have close to 40 or more to choose from. If I have a free Saturday, I'll typically watch 2 or 3 games in full, and parts of others.

Over here BT/ESPN show about 10 games on a Saturday.
Starts about 2pm with the College Gameday show. Then the live games. Usually a mix of SEC/BIG12/BIG10. Then a game from the PAC12 at 3am Sunday.

If SAFC aren't playing I'll happily watch for hours.
 
Over here BT/ESPN show about 10 games on a Saturday.
Starts about 2pm with the College Gameday show. Then the live games. Usually a mix of SEC/BIG12/BIG10. Then a game from the PAC12 at 3am Sunday.

If SAFC aren't playing I'll happily watch for hours.
BT/ESPN also usually have a college game on a Thursday night. If I'm up I'll usually flick between that and the Thursday night football NFL game.
 
I've always preferred college football to the NFL, but lately it hasn't interested me much with the same teams completely dominating. I went to the University of Illinois in the late 90s and was pretty excited about going to football games when I first arrived. The stadium is old and terrible but still seats 60,000. My first year our team had two defensive players who would get drafted 2nd and 3rd overall but a trash offense. We started 3-1 and were ranked in the top-25. We went 7-32-1 the rest of my time in school and every win was against a significantly smaller non-conference opponent or another lousy Big 10 team like Indiana. Also took some epic home beatings from teams like Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue with Drew Brees and a non-conference game with USC that we lost something like 55-3. At least the stadium was always walking distance to where I lived on campus so it was easy to get back to a tv to watch actual good games.

I did go to a few big bowl games back in the 90's with my dad. Those were fun. I saw Nebraska and Tommie Frazier obliterate Florida in the national title game and also saw Nebraska beat Tennessee in Peyton Manning's last college game. But I can't remember the last time I went to a college game. Maybe 2008.
 
I've always preferred college football to the NFL, but lately it hasn't interested me much with the same teams completely dominating. I went to the University of Illinois in the late 90s and was pretty excited about going to football games when I first arrived. The stadium is old and terrible but still seats 60,000. My first year our team had two defensive players who would get drafted 2nd and 3rd overall but a trash offense. We started 3-1 and were ranked in the top-25. We went 7-32-1 the rest of my time in school and every win was against a significantly smaller non-conference opponent or another lousy Big 10 team like Indiana. Also took some epic home beatings from teams like Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue with Drew Brees and a non-conference game with USC that we lost something like 55-3. At least the stadium was always walking distance to where I lived on campus so it was easy to get back to a tv to watch actual good games.

I did go to a few big bowl games back in the 90's with my dad. Those were fun. I saw Nebraska and Tommie Frazier obliterate Florida in the national title game and also saw Nebraska beat Tennessee in Peyton Manning's last college game. But I can't remember the last time I went to a college game. Maybe 2008.
is the ground in chicago ? one of me bro in laws used to live there, was having a tour round city and assed a ground ( was a college one, almost certain ), was massive, stunned by size for college team . Didnt realise magnitude of the college game.
 

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