Americans and Sports


I'm not American, I'm from Houghton. I only lived there three years.

So I can only speak from a very limited experience, but I worked with tons of different people and watched various sports all over the country when I was there.

Firstly teams that move do so fairly infrequently and always for money. When a team is leaving a place it is usually somewhere with minimal support or interest moving to a market with strong demand for the missing sports team. The odds of the Giants or the Yankees leaving New York is zero. I'm sure the relocation of the Brooklyn Dodgers caused a lot of upset back in the day, but teams like the Raiders and the Rams have moved a few times so the support in the city they leave behind isn't that deep rooted.

There are a few fans of "franchises" who support the same team wherever they end up, but the vast majority of sports fans I knew supported their local team only, and they were all teams that would never leave NY.

Season ticket holders definitely do exist. I had one for the Rangers. You aren't getting into the Giants or the Jets without one. Fortunately they haven't had the same issues with crowd violence we had in the 70s and 80s (though I have seen rival supporters chinning each other at Madison Square Garden and Giants Stadium), so once you have a season ticket you can re-sell tickets to individual games to anyone you like, as long as it's not within quarter of a mile of the stadium. I got tickets for all games and all sports through StubHub without issue and sold them there myself.

Away fans not so much. There were always a section or two of away fans at Madison Square Garden, and I've been an away fan at a Washington Capitals game, but I think they turn up because they are there already rather than travelling specifically to watch the team, at least in regular season. I saw the Jets play Miami and there were very few away fans, but against the Steelers there was a couple of thousand of them (a decent minority of whom got pissed and fighty) - I assume this is just down to relative distances between teams, and NFL also has that tailgating culture of BBQs and drinking in the parking lot that people are more likely to travel for.

Depth of passion depends on the sport and the team. There are definitely Yankees and Red Sox fans whose entire happiness rests on the performance of their team, but I don't think fans of (say) the Arizona Diamondbacks have the same level of passion. It was similar with the NY Rangers, who are the Sunderland of Ice Hockey. The lads I worked with who supported the NJ Devils or NY Islanders hated the Rangers, but Giants fans were indifferent to the Jets (the Jets big rivalry is with Miami for some reason), and Yankees fans care more about beating Boston than they do the Mets (NY - Boston seems to be a rivalry in all sports).

I think support runs in families, at least for NY teams, but I could never work out what the dividing line was between Jets and Giants or Mets and Yankees - it wasn't geographical.

Wonder if some of this comes down to the fact that about 60% of New Yorkers are of Italian descendancy, a country who get sport and what it is to love a team. Could be total bollocks mind but it popped into my head so why not suggest it.
 
Some of our American based posters might be best placed to shed a bit more light on this, @burchmackem, @NYMackem, @njmackem etc...

With your various sports, franchises, conferences, teams moving across country etc - Do Americans actually get it? Are they just sports fans, or do they have supporters?

Take for instance when the Dodgers left Brooklyn - what the frig happened to their fans? Did they even have any? Were people upset?

More recently the Raiders have bounced from Oakland, to LA, back to Oakland, and now reside in a swanky new stadium in Las Vegas. This is a team with 3 Superbowls to it's name. Have all their fans bounced along with them? The ever faithful cross the Sierra Nevada every other week to cheer them on?

Do season ticket holders exist? Would Phase 3 ever be a thing?

Do grown men cry when success/abject failure rears it's head in the post-season?

Do fathers pass their loyalties onto their sons?

Are weekends completely ruined when their team loses?

Do they care?
-When teams move, people care. Some follow the team, most hate them forever. The new city generally fills the void. There will be some bitter hardcores, but more often than not - apathetic fan bases who can't fill a stadium are losing teams. Not always - of course - in the NHL it was just finanically tough to stay in Canada for a good while.

-The Raiders are a special breed - in LA you'll likely find more Raiders fans than Chargers. It's an identity. In Oakland, the Raider fan base was very passionate even when they were gone. They and the Browns may have the most passionate of the cities who lost teams. But no one in LA or Oakland would do the corporate handout the Raiders wanted for their stadium.

-Yes on season tickets - no on Phases as they'd probably just do one phase, and give way more to corporate shit heads to fill suites.

-Yes - grown men still cry. Generally just in the NFL level as far as pros. There are some baseball nutters - especially with the very historic teams. Hockey the Canadians are crazy about but Americans dont really care. The NBA is fun but no one is going to cry over it.

-The big twist is COLLEGE sports. 117,000 or so fill Michigan stadium every week, even though the school is Arsenal caliber success wise - haven't won the title since 1997. Down the street about 20 mins - the Detroit Lions struggle to sell 50K for an NFL game. People CARE and CARE dearly. The schools in the south lie cheat and steal for every possible advantage. The coaches / managers are paid at an NFL level. Obviously no team would ever more. It's passed down from generation to generation and any crossing of lines is taken very seriously. There's some level of this on the other sports, but college is genuinely where the big passion is, along with the NFL.

-The new emerging problem in American sports is all these people are now watching the Premier League and declaring themselves lifelong Spurs fans.
It seems the American owners don't understand players representing their country but the club don't get paid anything for that. In addition the concept of relegation is beyond their comprehension. Of course they have drafts etc from colleges so do the teams get a fair share of that? It does not exist here in the UK - most clubs have scouting systems around the world.

The problem is - the drafts usually go in reverse order - worst team picks first. This basically creates a huge DIS incentive to winning if you can't compete for the title. Everyone wants to tank - since finishing mid table gets you neither here nor there. Relegation is what makes it all so compelling in the football pyramid.
 
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-When teams move, people care. Some follow the team, most hate them forever. The new city generally fills the void. There will be some bitter hardcores, but more often than not - apathetic fan bases who can't fill a stadium are losing teams. Not always - of course - in the NHL it was just finanically tough to stay in Canada for a good while.

-The Raiders are a special breed - in LA you'll likely find more Raiders fans than Chargers. It's an identity. In Oakland, the Raider fan base was very passionate even when they were gone. They and the Browns may have the most passionate of the cities who lost teams. But no one in LA or Oakland would do the corporate handout the Raiders wanted for their stadium.

-Yes on season tickets - no on Phases as they'd probably just do one phase, and give way more to corporate shit heads to fill suites.

-Yes - grown men still cry. Generally just in the NFL level as far as pros. There are some baseball nutters - especially with the very historic teams. Hockey the Canadians are crazy about but Americans dont really care. The NBA is fun but no one is going to cry over it.

-The big twist is COLLEGE sports. 117,000 or so fill Michigan stadium every week, even though the school is Arsenal caliber success wise - haven't won the title since 1997. Down the street about 20 mins - the Detroit Lions struggle to sell 50K for an NFL game. People CARE and CARE dearly. The schools in the south lie cheat and steal for every possible advantage. The coaches / managers are paid at an NFL level. Obviously no team would ever more. It's passed down from generation to generation and any crossing of lines is taken very seriously. There's some level of this on the other sports, but college is genuinely where the big passion is, along with the NFL.

-The new emerging problem in American sports is all these people are now watching the Premier League and declaring themselves lifelong Spurs fans.


The problem is - the drafts usually go in reverse order - worst team picks first. This basically creates a huge DIS incentive to winning if you can't compete for the title. Everyone wants to tank - since finishing mid table gets you neither here nor there. Relegation is what makes it all so compelling in the football pyramid.
The salaries of colleague coaches is amazing. In many states, the highest paid civil servant is the coach of the state college football team. And coaches move back and forth between the pros and the college game - imagine the next Chelsea manager being the current coach of Newcastle University's first team.
 
The salaries of colleague coaches is amazing. In many states, the highest paid civil servant is the coach of the state college football team. And coaches move back and forth between the pros and the college game - imagine the next Chelsea manager being the current coach of Newcastle University's first team.
Haha, this is an amazing stat. In 40 out of 50 states - the highest paid public employee is either the football or basketball coach of one of the state universities. This is a year old - but can't be much different.

 
Haha, this is an amazing stat. In 40 out of 50 states - the highest paid public employee is either the football or basketball coach of one of the state universities. This is a year old - but can't be much different.

That stat is amazing, but the actually salary figures are mind boggling. Alabama state university, a publicly owned institution, pays Nick Saban $9 million a year to coach their football team. Almost twice as much as he was paid when he was head coach of the Miami Dolphins :lol:
I just cant get my head around the popularity of college teams. :lol:

It seems weird and totally alien to me that you'd be passionate about your local college football side.

Great thread BTW.
The popularity is just a function of the quality of the players and the game at that level. The alien thing for me is that the main route to a professional sports career is through having a good college career, and that actual seats of learning charging thousands of dollars a year in tuition fees will provide all sorts of huge incentives (legal and otherwise) to attract student athletes, even if they are borderline illiterate. And then make them go to classes alongside being (incentives aside) unpaid professional athletes!

As unappetising as it is to see 18 year old footballers driving Porsches without ever having graced the first team, making the kind of sums college sports does off unpaid athletes, who may never make the major leagues, is surely worse.
 
Different sport but I was in a New York sports bar the day New York red bulls were playing New York City. Was expecting a git class atmosphere but no one was even watching it. Too busy watching the ball game.
This game isn't even a rivalry game though. The MLS would like you to think it is, but NYRB v NYFC would be like Sunderland vs Hartlepool.... Red Bulls traditionally have DC Utd as their main rival. You can't just create a rivalry out of nothing.

That said it does get a little tasty at the events and the 'Stadium March' for both games... Remember in a NY Sports bar its not like being at home where Sunderland are the only professional team in the area. In addition to Red Bulls and NYCFC you have Giants, Jets, Rangers, Devils, Islanders, Knicks and Nets all with their own fan base. You have to be in the right bars.....

It's tough for football fans, and anyone who hasn't been to the USA to understand the sheer size of the country. Let's say you are a NY Yankees fan, and you're in the play-offs (always an electric atmosphere) against LA Angels and you have a Sunday evening game. That's a 6 hour flight to the game through two time zones, by the time the game ends on the West Coast it can be 1/2am on the East Coast - now you have to try get back for graft on Monday..... you just can't do it. Don't assume because you don't have 'home and away' fans at the game that there isn't an amazing atmosphere.... Tailgating before the game is amazing - I'd take that over drinking in the town before the match any day of the week....
There’ll be young’uns wanting to be like their favourite player but the draft system dictates where and who players play for.
Players can reject to play for a professional team, its been done before (Eli Manning refused to sign for the Chargers)....

Yeah I am sure that kids living in the Bronx grow up wanting to play for the Yankees every bit as much as kids in Southwick want to play for Sunderland..... You may have a different route but if they are good enough they have just as much chance...
That stat is amazing, but the actually salary figures are mind boggling. Alabama state university, a publicly owned institution, pays Nick Saban $9 million a year to coach their football team. Almost twice as much as he was paid when he was head coach of the Miami Dolphins :lol:
Saban is worth every cent of the money he earns to be honest though. The money that Bama make from the NCAA makes Saban's salary look low!
 
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I just cant get my head around the popularity of college teams. :lol:

It seems weird and totally alien to me that you'd be passionate about your local college football side.

Great thread BTW.
:lol: I think it just goes to show how nuts the place is.

For all I might have set the thread away to discuss whether or not the silly sods get us and football, perhaps we'll never quite get them and their sports either.
 
:lol: I think it just goes to show how nuts the place is.

For all I might have set the thread away to discuss whether or not the silly sods get us and football, perhaps we'll never quite get them and their sports either.
I totally agree.

I was going to reply to @njmackem previous post about tailgating being amazing. One of your mates has to drive to the match. Youve got the chew on of setting a bbq and tables and stuff up, and cooking the food. This often done in car parks in the cold. How can that be amazing? :lol:

But its part of their culture (I'm guessing brought on mainly because a lot of the NFL grounds are based out of city centres?), and they clearly have a great time.
 
I totally agree.

I was going to reply to @njmackem previous post about tailgating being amazing. One of your mates has to drive to the match. Youve got the chew on of setting a bbq and tables and stuff up, and cooking the food. This often done in car parks in the cold. How can that be amazing? :lol:

But its part of their culture (I'm guessing brought on mainly because a lot of the NFL grounds are based out of city centres?), and they clearly have a great time.
tailgating is very much one of those you don't get until you've done it. people drive to away games all the time; it's no different. the chew isn't that bad; set the bbq up and leave it to heat up while you throw a football around and have a bit crack.

sometimes if im going to a jets game i stay in the bar then get the special train to the ground; other times i'll go to a tailgate. there's actual companies that run some of them and they charge a small fee for the stuff. removes the chew.
 
This game isn't even a rivalry game though. The MLS would like you to think it is, but NYRB v NYFC would be like Sunderland vs Hartlepool.... Red Bulls traditionally have DC Utd as their main rival. You can't just create a rivalry out of nothing.

That said it does get a little tasty at the events and the 'Stadium March' for both games... Remember in a NY Sports bar its not like being at home where Sunderland are the only professional team in the area. In addition to Red Bulls and NYCFC you have Giants, Jets, Rangers, Devils, Islanders, Knicks and Nets all with their own fan base. You have to be in the right bars.....

The one rivalry that's starting to get good is the LAFC/LA Galaxy one. (My favorite bit is that the match is now called 'El Traffico'.)

Its roots are completely manufactured, but the fans are getting into it.
I was going to reply to @njmackem previous post about tailgating being amazing. One of your mates has to drive to the match. Youve got the chew on of setting a bbq and tables and stuff up, and cooking the food. This often done in car parks in the cold. How can that be amazing? :lol:
Because alcohol.

Same could be said for standing in the Roker End in the middle of winter with only Bovril to heat you up...
 
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I totally agree.

I was going to reply to @njmackem previous post about tailgating being amazing. One of your mates has to drive to the match. Youve got the chew on of setting a bbq and tables and stuff up, and cooking the food. This often done in car parks in the cold. How can that be amazing? :lol:

But its part of their culture (I'm guessing brought on mainly because a lot of the NFL grounds are based out of city centres?), and they clearly have a great time.
Be absolutely shite not being Des like.

I imagine a fair bit of drink driving goes on.
 
tailgating is very much one of those you don't get until you've done it. people drive to away games all the time; it's no different. the chew isn't that bad; set the bbq up and leave it to heat up while you throw a football around and have a bit crack.

sometimes if im going to a jets game i stay in the bar then get the special train to the ground; other times i'll go to a tailgate. there's actual companies that run some of them and they charge a small fee for the stuff. removes the chew.
Everyone there seems to have a great time. Think it maybe shows that an NFL is a bigger event than a random league match over here due to the lack of home league games played each year in the NFL. People make a proper effort and commit the full day to it, which is more akin to us going to an away day.
The one rivalry that's starting to get good is the LAFC/LA Galaxy one. (My favorite bit is that the match is now called 'El Traffico'.)

Its roots are completely manufactured, but the fans are getting into it.

Because alcohol.

Same could be said for standing in the Roker End in the middle of winter with only Bovril to heat you up...
Aye that would definitely help the job. Be more appealing in the warmer weather.
Be absolutely shite not being Des like.

I imagine a fair bit of drink driving goes on.
Being Des would be fairly gutting. Mind, just need a mate who ain't fussed about drinking and youre laughing! And I can imagine you're right re. The drink driving.
 
I've looked into this and it turns out American sport is shit. Rounders for the fat lads, putting a ball into a ten foot high hole for the seven footers. Charging into people dressed as a sumo wrestler for the ones too talentless for those two and ice hockey for the rest.

All run in a system that means the league owns who plays so even if you are the best in the world if they don't agree you don't play.

Most sports you just play them and win and their opinion no longer matters but not for most of their shite
 

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