American Health Care

Pop said:
Private healthcare generates billions in additional tax, you are in favour of banning a lot of things that bring in a lot of cash, right on comrade.

What about the thousands of jobs that the industry provides? More tax lost, nice one comrade.
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Nice to see we can have a reasoned discussion on the merits of private healthcare without resorting to implying people are communists :lol:
 


Frijj said:
Absolutely not. The only people who lose out are the people who would have gamed the system against you, against me, against every one of us who can’t afford to buy our way to better health or better education.

By your logic, everyone who can’t afford private healthcare or private education is at the bottom?

If the rich and wealthy are forced to use public services, do you know what will happen? Suddenly politicians will have an incentive to properly fund them, lest their donors and influential friends stop coughing up the money and support.
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I’d wager most people who have private healthcare aren’t paying for it, they will receive it as a employee benefit, which again they are taxed on, more money lost for the government. You are on a roll!

Frijj said:
Nice to see we can have a reasoned discussion on the merits of private healthcare without resorting to implying people are communists :lol:
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I’m right though, you want to decimate a huge industry and create a massive tax black hole, you haven’t really thought this through...
 
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Pop said:
I’d guess most people who have private healthcare aren’t paying for it, they will receive it as a employee benefit, which again they are taxed on, more money lost for the government. You are on a roll!



I’m right though, you want to decimate a huge industry and create a massive tax black hole, you haven’t really thought this through...
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You’re starting your argument from the perspective that jobs and tax revenue are always good and never have drawbacks.

If we got rid of the NHS entirely and moved to a heath insurance system like the US, we’d create loads of new jobs in that sector.

We know this because it’s well-documented the US has a bloated, inefficient workforce dealing with the administrative burden of health insurance.

Just because something creates jobs and brings in tax, doesn’t mean it has an overall positive impact on society.

I wouldn’t decimate the industry entirely, I’ve already stated several times that private cosmetic medicine would still exist, so perhaps you should read my posts properly before using language like “decimate a huge industry”, but perhaps in your haste to scream “Communist!” you just missed that.

I believe that people should not be able to access a higher standard of healthcare based on their income. That’s my position, regardless of the tax implications.

I’d also get rid of private schools too.

Do you send your children to a private school, or do you have private healthcare for non-cosmetic reasons?
 
Frijj said:
You’re starting your argument from the perspective that jobs and tax revenue are always good and never have drawbacks.

If we got rid of the NHS entirely and moved to a heath insurance system like the US, we’d create loads of new jobs in that sector.

We know this because it’s well-documented the US has a bloated, inefficient workforce dealing with the administrative burden of health insurance.

Just because something creates jobs and brings in tax, doesn’t mean it has an overall positive impact on society.

I wouldn’t decimate the industry entirely, I’ve already stated several times that private cosmetic medicine would still exist, so perhaps you should read my posts properly before using language like “decimate a huge industry”, but perhaps in your haste to scream “Communist!” you just missed that.

I believe that people should not be able to access a higher standard of healthcare based on their income. That’s my position, regardless of the tax implications.

I’d also get rid of private schools too.

Do you send your children to a private school, or do you have private healthcare for non-cosmetic reasons?
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Cosmetic surgery makes up a very small percentage of private healthcare usage. The vast majority of spend is on cancer and MSK treatment.

You’re also making the assumption that only high earners have access to private medical insurance, plenty companies private it to all or a significant of their employees. Some companies will allow their employees to buy it at reduced rates.

Just like any industry, lots of other people are in the supply chain. If you only had cosmetic surgery, all of the companies in the supply chain would cease to exist, a number of which are skilled high paying jobs. Thanks for putting me on the scrap heap.

I don’t have any kids but I do have private health insurance. Only ever used it once for a bad back which if I had to wait for the NHS would’ve taken months. I’ve paid for treatment in the past when I didn’t have it, would do it again.

I’m not advocating getting rid of the NHS, private provision in the UK runs alongside the NHS, reduces the burden on the NHS whilst generating billions for the economy.

What are the drawbacks of private healthcare in the UK?
 
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Pop said:
Cosmetic surgery makes up a very small percentage of private healthcare usage. The vast majority of spend is on cancer and MSK treatment.

You’re also making the assumption that only high earners have access to private medical insurance, plenty companies private it to all or a significant of their employees. Some companies will allow their employees to buy it at reduced rates.

Just like any industry, lots of other people are in the supply chain. If you only had cosmetic surgery, all of the companies in the supply chain would cease to exist, a number of which are skilled high paying jobs. Thanks for putting me on the scrap heap.

I don’t have any kids but I do have private health insurance. Only ever used it once for a bad back which if I had to wait for the NHS would’ve taken months. I’ve paid for treatment in the past when I didn’t have it, would do it again.

I’m not advocating getting rid of the NHS, private provision in the UK runs alongside the NHS, reduces the burden on the NHS whilst generating billions for the economy.

What are the drawbacks of private healthcare in the UK?
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Interesting - do you have a source for the proportion of private medical activity by type of activity?

The drawbacks of private healthcare are people are allowed to skip the queue, often because they earn more, or have a better job than other people. Simple as that. All people seen by their level of need, not their level of income or if they're lucky enough to have an employer provide private health insurance for them.

I honestly do not care about the jobs in the supply chain or the jobs in the insurance companies, they're collateral damage to me. They'd have to find other work.
 
Frijj said:
Interesting - do you have a source for the proportion of private medical activity by type of activity?

The drawbacks of private healthcare are people are allowed to skip the queue, often because they earn more, or have a better job than other people. Simple as that. All people seen by their level of need, not their level of income or if they're lucky enough to have an employer provide private health insurance for them.

I honestly do not care about the jobs in the supply chain or the jobs in the insurance companies, they're collateral damage to me. They'd have to find other work.
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People who use private healthcare don’t, by definition, use NHS resources, thus reducing demand on an already stretched service. Push all of those people into the NHS and it would fall over.
 
Changing subject slightly but if Jeremy Corbyn took bad I reckon he'd use American healthcare or if not that private healthcare in this country to get sorted. He's that kind of bloke, he sat on the floor of a train claiming it had no seats left when in reality it had a whole car available.
 
NHS doctors who work in private healthcare “on the side” are directly harming the health service, a senior consultant has said.

In a confessional article in medical journal the BMJ, cardiologist Dr John Dean said that he had stopped working in the private sector after realising the “direct adverse effects on the NHS”.

Many experienced NHS doctors run or work in a private practice alongside their NHS work. There are no rules against it in principle but consultant contracts stipulate there must be no conflict of interest between NHS and private work.

NHS doctors working in private healthcare 'on the side' directly harming health service, says senior consultant
 
joemcdokes said:
Unbelievable how insurance companies get screwed, windscreens for example one for a car I had was around £400, the windscreen company said it was £1000.

Nice earner for them.
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Yeah your right. Bodywork garage giave me a quote for cash and another if i went through insurance. About £400 difference
 
Dougy16 said:
Changing subject slightly but if Jeremy Corbyn took bad I reckon he'd use American healthcare or if not that private healthcare in this country to get sorted. He's that kind of bloke, he sat on the floor of a train claiming it had no seats left when in reality it had a whole car available.
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Dougy16 said:
Changing subject slightly but if Jeremy Corbyn took bad I reckon he'd use American healthcare or if not that private healthcare in this country to get sorted. He's that kind of bloke, he sat on the floor of a train claiming it had no seats left when in reality it had a whole car available.
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pathetic that like. i'm comfortably left wing, but i'd take private healthcare if i could afford it. Corbyn is our only tangible hope of preserving the NHS for future generations, and on a thread about the dangers of private healthcare, you somehow manage to try and get a dig in.

put down the daily mail, turn off you Farage propaganda videos and actually engage your brain
 
Frijj said:
Absolutely not. The only people who lose out are the people who would have gamed the system against you, against me, against every one of us who can’t afford to buy our way to better health or better education.

By your logic, everyone who can’t afford private healthcare or private education is at the bottom?

If the rich and wealthy are forced to use public services, do you know what will happen? Suddenly politicians will have an incentive to properly fund them, lest their donors and influential friends stop coughing up the money and support.
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In a pure idealistic world you are correct. Sadly we aren’t living in an idealistic world and with globalisation and increased population etc health care needs to adapt. You could argue health care needs to adapt regionally in the uk also. One size fits all it becoming less applicable.
 
HellsBells said:
People who use private healthcare don’t, by definition, use NHS resources, thus reducing demand on an already stretched service. Push all of those people into the NHS and it would fall over.
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The state would be forced to properly fund it, particularly if wealthy, influential people were forced to use it.

Chop Sauce said:
In a pure idealistic world you are correct. Sadly we aren’t living in an idealistic world and with globalisation and increased population etc health care needs to adapt. You could argue health care needs to adapt regionally in the uk also. One size fits all it becoming less applicable.
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We do have a regionally adaptive NHS. We have STPs, trusts and CCGs for example.

People won’t go abroad for their GP appointment man.

There is literally nothing you can say to change my mind.
 
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Frijj said:
The state would be forced to properly fund it, particularly if wealthy, influential people were forced to use it.



We do have a regionally adaptive NHS. We have STPs, trusts and CCGs for example.

People won’t go abroad for their GP appointment man.

There is literally nothing you can say to change my mind.
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I don’t want to change your mind or are what you think. You are living in the past and your idealistic world will never be reality so it’s a pointless discussion.
 
Frijj said:
Interesting - do you have a source for the proportion of private medical activity by type of activity?

The drawbacks of private healthcare are people are allowed to skip the queue, often because they earn more, or have a better job than other people. Simple as that. All people seen by their level of need, not their level of income or if they're lucky enough to have an employer provide private health insurance for them.

I honestly do not care about the jobs in the supply chain or the jobs in the insurance companies, they're collateral damage to me. They'd have to find other work.
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I'm struggling. I've had the wrong operation and my quality of life isn't as good as it should be. I'm currently fighting the NHS to try and get the correct operation to improve my quality of life.

If I had the money, I'd pay for the correct op just so I'm well again and can get on with my life.
 
Frijj said:
Interesting - do you have a source for the proportion of private medical activity by type of activity?

The drawbacks of private healthcare are people are allowed to skip the queue, often because they earn more, or have a better job than other people. Simple as that. All people seen by their level of need, not their level of income or if they're lucky enough to have an employer provide private health insurance for them.

I honestly do not care about the jobs in the supply chain or the jobs in the insurance companies, they're collateral damage to me. They'd have to find other work.
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f***ing hell, thousands out of work, billions in lost taxes, a whole industry destroyed, increased burden on the NHS and a lot of pissed off people.

What are the benefits of this policy and who is going to pay for it?
 
Frijj said:
The state would be forced to properly fund it, particularly if wealthy, influential people were forced to use it.



We do have a regionally adaptive NHS. We have STPs, trusts and CCGs for example.

People won’t go abroad for their GP appointment man.

There is literally nothing you can say to change my mind.
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In an ideal world, yes I agree with you. The state would fund a perfect health system.

We don’t live in a perfect world.
 

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