Alex Neil Post Match


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I mean your logic is exemplary. Basically everyone we played under Johnson were really tough opponents but everyone we’ve played under Neil are crap (including two of the top three teams in the division).

I think every team in the division is crap. It’s a crap league. But you’re just offering defence for Johnson and prosecution for Neil. It’s ludicrous and lacks objectivity.
I think the reverse is true. I am happy to admit it’s a disgrace losing to Lincoln and being pasted in the third tier of English football. Questions needed to be asked. But what did we gain from changing manager mid season? The post mortem and recruitment process for a new manager is simpler at the end of a season. Hence why whoever takes charge Of that first game next August will need the full season, unless their position is absolutely untenable.

My criticism of Neil is that we have no way of playing, we switch from being a long ball team to a passing team. He randomly picks players and subs like Dajaku coming on left wing today, starting Broadhead. Arby playimg a couple of games then being withdrawn. The system is just ridiculous, playing with one centre back And kind of a none existent centre midfield, we get away with it because the league is shite, as you say. It’s just seemed like such a scatter gun approach and hes not really getting much of a tune from our players that can make a difference which is worrying. If he doesn’t get into the play offs, we don’t want to be in a position again where we change the manager mid season again, so a conversation will have to take place in that scenario about who is best to take us forward, which would be a sensible way to do it.
We are just going to be shite forever aren’t we :lol:

The blokes only just come in, who’s available at the moment?
It’s a conversation for the summer, but ideally someone who’s a better fit for the players we have currently.
 
Tightened the defence. It was embarrassing conceding so many under LJ. As for the rest the jury is out but I think he will sort it either this or next season

I completely agree. But sacking him hasn’t made our situation any better has it? I don’t share your optimism about Neil, I’ve not seen anything that suggests he knows how to sort us out. It could be a long old season watching the football he’s served up at home thus far too.
 
I think the reverse is true. I am happy to admit it’s a disgrace losing to Lincoln and being pasted in the third tier of English football. Questions needed to be asked. But what did we gain from changing manager mid season? The post mortem and recruitment process for a new manager is simpler at the end of a season. Hence why whoever takes charge Of that first game next August will need the full season, unless their position is absolutely untenable.

My criticism of Neil is that we have no way of playing, we switch from being a long ball team to a passing team. He randomly picks players and subs like Dajaku coming on left wing today, starting Broadhead. Arby playimg a couple of games then being withdrawn. The system is just ridiculous, playing with one centre back And kind of a none existent centre midfield, we get away with it because the league is shite, as you say. It’s just seemed like such a scatter gun approach and hes not really getting much of a tune from our players that can make a difference which is worrying. If he doesn’t get into the play offs, we don’t want to be in a position again where we change the manager mid season again, so a conversation will have to take place in that scenario about who is best to take us forward, which would be a sensible way to do it.

It’s a conversation for the summer, but ideally someone who’s a better fit for the players we have currently.
So whoever is manager next season desurves the whole season but neil should get sacked after 15 games
 
I think the reverse is true. I am happy to admit it’s a disgrace losing to Lincoln and being pasted in the third tier of English football. Questions needed to be asked. But what did we gain from changing manager mid season? The post mortem and recruitment process for a new manager is simpler at the end of a season. Hence why whoever takes charge Of that first game next August will need the full season, unless their position is absolutely untenable.

My criticism of Neil is that we have no way of playing, we switch from being a long ball team to a passing team. He randomly picks players and subs like Dajaku coming on left wing today, starting Broadhead. Arby playimg a couple of games then being withdrawn. The system is just ridiculous, playing with one centre back And kind of a none existent centre midfield, we get away with it because the league is shite, as you say. It’s just seemed like such a scatter gun approach and hes not really getting much of a tune from our players that can make a difference which is worrying. If he doesn’t get into the play offs, we don’t want to be in a position again where we change the manager mid season again, so a conversation will have to take place in that scenario about who is best to take us forward, which would be a sensible way to do it.

It’s a conversation for the summer, but ideally someone who’s a better fit for the players we have currently.
I really get what your saying mate and see your point of view although I disagree. But I feel the pool of managers who are available are few and far between. We have a solid championship manager in at the moment
 
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I completely agree. But sacking him hasn’t made our situation any better has it? I don’t share your optimism about Neil, I’ve not seen anything that suggests he knows how to sort us out. It could be a long old season watching the football he’s served up at home thus far too.

It hasn’t made our situation better because we squandered two vitally important weeks. A lack of planning and ruthlessness in the pursuit of a new coach prior to pulling the trigger on Johnson cost us majorly. Blame the club for that not Neil. He didn’t oversee the shambles of Bolton, Doncaster and Cheltenham. Three fixtures where we should have been taking a minimum of 7 not 0. It did huge amounts of damage to our season.

As has been said, sacking Johnson wasn’t the error. It was sacking him without a ready to go plan at a critical juncture of the season
 
You’ve offered zero mitigation for Neil. Below, you’re saying you fail to see how Neil has shown anything to suggest he’s an improvement on Johnson after just 8 games in charge.

If you were to say you don’t think he represents an upgrade on Johnson based on his career record (that’d be a tough claim to make also) and therefore shouldn’t have been appointed then that’s one thing but your comparison of their records and situation whilst at Sunderland (in terms of recent form) doesn’t stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

Just say you never wanted him and don’t have a good feeling about him. It’s a load easier and more honest. I was the same with Johnson!
I didn’t want him, let’s face it since his promotion with norwich 7 years ago his career trajectory has been sliding downwards. People can turn a blind eye to that but he was out of work for a year after being sacked by a none sacking club with Preston and he’s found himself in league one.

I cant go along with that, you can look at what you’ve seen with Neil at sunderland and be disappointed with it. The football has been eye wateringly bad especially at home, he’s been fortunate in my opinion to even have the meagre tally he has currently.
It hasn’t made our situation better because we squandered two vitally important weeks. A lack of planning and ruthlessness in the pursuit of a new coach prior to pulling the trigger on Johnson cost us majorly. Blame the club for that not Neil. He didn’t oversee the shambles of Bolton, Doncaster and Cheltenham. Three fixtures where we should have been taking a minimum of 7 not 0. It did huge amounts of damage to our season.

As has been said, sacking Johnson wasn’t the error. It was sacking him without a ready to go plan at a critical juncture of the season
I think sacking any manager in the position we were in leaves you open to the kind of shambles we’ve seen since. Given you think it was the right decision to sack him, then surely you think neil should have done better in the games he’s had thus far?
 
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I didn’t want him, let’s face it since his promotion with norwich 7 years ago his career trajectory has been sliding downwards. People can turn a blind eye to that but he was out of work for a year after being sacked by a none sacking club with Preston and he’s found himself in league one.

I cant go along with that, you can look at what you’ve seen with Neil at sunderland and be disappointed with it. The football has been eye wateringly bad especially at home, he’s been fortunate in my opinion to even have the meagre tally he has currently.

Right, now we’re getting to the nub of it. You didn’t want him and think his track record is questionable. That’s more like it and fair enough (I can’t quite square that circle with your enthusiasm for Johnson but there you go).

We’ve got 12 from 8. We were dreadful in our last two wins at home, I agree. Pragmatic, attritional and bad to watch. Couldn’t have complained if we’d drawn. But, we’ve outplayed Wigan, Charlton and now Lincoln with decent football and created plenty. We didn’t get the points the footballing performance warranted.

We’ve taken 12 from 8 and that’s about right for how we’ve been under Neil.
 
I completely agree. But sacking him hasn’t made our situation any better has it? I don’t share your optimism about Neil, I’ve not seen anything that suggests he knows how to sort us out. It could be a long old season watching the football he’s served up at home thus far too.
Sacking LJ was inevitable the bloke is just full of it! The only thing that has improved is our defence and had LJ bothered to look at that problem we might be top 2 now. However he paid the price for being clueless. I’m not sure about Neil in fact I’m not sure about anything or anyone at this circus. Maybe Neil will get us to the playoffs maybe not but if we do I just feel he will get the job done
 
So whoever is manager next season desurves the whole season but neil should get sacked after 15 games

If Neil is here in August we have to try to give him the season. If we don’t think he’s the man in the summer the next person should have the season.

Johnson should never have been sacked mid season, if we got to the end of the season and we hadn’t gone up then would have been the time. Short Termism rarely works when applied at the top of The league.
 
I didn’t want him, let’s face it since his promotion with norwich 7 years ago his career trajectory has been sliding downwards. People can turn a blind eye to that but he was out of work for a year after being sacked by a none sacking club with Preston and he’s found himself in league one.

I cant go along with that, you can look at what you’ve seen with Neil at sunderland and be disappointed with it. The football has been eye wateringly bad especially at home, he’s been fortunate in my opinion to even have the meagre tally he has currently.

I think sacking any manager in the position we were in leaves you open to the kind of shambles we’ve seen since. Given you think it was the right decision to sack him, then surely you think neil should have done better in the games he’s had thus far?

Yes, I do think we should have done better. 12 from 8 isn’t what we needed and it’s touch and go. I think there are mitigating factors given the state of the place when he arrived. He didn’t have any time with them before the first fixture which was winnable (again, clubs fault) and we should have been better.
 
Right, now we’re getting to the nub of it. You didn’t want him and think his track record is questionable. That’s more like it and fair enough (I can’t quite square that circle with your enthusiasm for Johnson but there you go).

We’ve got 12 from 8. We were dreadful in our last two wins at home, I agree. Pragmatic, attritional and bad to watch. Couldn’t have complained if we’d drawn. But, we’ve outplayed Wigan, Charlton and now Lincoln with decent football and created plenty. We didn’t get the points the footballing performance warranted.

We’ve taken 12 from 8 and that’s about right for how we’ve been under Neil.
Yea, I think his record is extremely questionable. However I’m not as wedded as some to past records. Some people think Johnson was expected to get Bristol City into the premier league which is a nonsense really...

The football and the lack of any kind of idea of how we’re going to play is a massive concern. Johnson’s football was good and I liked the plan, I thought he was extremely naive away from home in the way we played though and he probably needed some help with that.
Yes, I do think we should have done better. 12 from 8 isn’t what we needed and it’s touch and go. I think there are mitigating factors given the state of the place when he arrived. He didn’t have any time with them before the first fixture which was winnable (again, clubs fault) and we should have been better.

Would you not concede the point that, despite your dislike of Johnson that he should have been given until the end of the season? The farce in the middle is always bound to happen, even if Neil had come in the next day we changed from trying to play from the back to smashing it up field. Players aren’t used to that...
 
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Yea, I think his record is extremely questionable. However I’m not as wedded as some to past records. Some people think Johnson was expected to get Bristol City into the premier league which is a nonsense really...

The football and the lack of any kind of idea of how we’re going to play is a massive concern. Johnson’s football was good and I liked the plan, I thought he was extremely naive away from home in the way we played though and he probably needed some help with that.

There’s no plan worth having that sees a club going for promotion conceding 3,4,5 and 6s. It’s not a play to tell players to constantly pass it through the middle and attack when you can’t defend. It doesn’t win football games.

As Neil has said, he’s had to go horses for courses and attempt to sort the defence out. I don’t think we’re playing in a style that he’d want us to play. But it’s the situation.

Anyway, I’ll call it a night. Onwards and upwards hopefully
Yea, I think his record is extremely questionable. However I’m not as wedded as some to past records. Some people think Johnson was expected to get Bristol City into the premier league which is a nonsense really...

The football and the lack of any kind of idea of how we’re going to play is a massive concern. Johnson’s football was good and I liked the plan, I thought he was extremely naive away from home in the way we played though and he probably needed some help with that.


Would you not concede the point that, despite your dislike of Johnson that he should have been given until the end of the season? The farce in the middle is always bound to happen, even if Neil had come in the next day we changed from trying to play from the back to smashing it up field. Players aren’t used to that...

If I’d known that we were going to piss around the way we did for two weeks after his sacking then yes, he may as well have stayed.
 
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There’s no plan worth having that sees a club going for promotion conceding 3,4,5 and 6s. It’s not a play to tell players to constantly pass it through the middle and attack when you can’t defend. It doesn’t win football games.

As Neil has said, he’s had to go horses for courses and attempt to sort the defence out. I don’t think we’re playing in a style that he’d want us to play. But it’s the situation.

Anyway, I’ll call it a night. Onwards and upwards hopefully
Have to agree to disagree. Let’s hope so.
 
It certainly seems that way…i doubt the players would dare to put in that type of performance whereas under LJ it almost seems that they could…..no fear factor there imo
I think the performance could be that shite,no doubt about that. But I don’t think he would’ve allowed the exact same set up in the second half as he did the 1st by sending the same 11out in the same formation. He at least tries to change it. Johnson was stubborn this bloke seems to adapt quite well. Today and Charlton are a proper Sunderland thing. Been allover this season and we’ve won at Crewe,gillingham,Cambridge(weather a factor) being the second best team, Charlton and today are 2 of the better performances and just lacked that killer touch. I think we need this bloke to commit to next season and give him some transfer marker clout to get us up if he doesn’t pull it off this season
 
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MK Dons were absolutely gash mind, it was a disgrace we lost to them. Of course Johnson’s last games weren’t great, but sacking him did the exact opposite to giving us a chance of automatics, they actively sabotaged any chance we had of the. Whatever you think of johnson the players were clearly on board and it dented their confidence hugely when he went.

Neil hasn’t helped himself by insisting we play negative anti football which doesn’t suit us, particularly at home and is struggling to get a tune out of the leagues top scorer. My point is simple, he needs to at least get us play offs or he’ll be gone. Which will be fair enough for me.
I think you are one of only 40000plus fans who actually believed the team under Johnson at the end had the remotest chance of going up automatically. Also what’s happening here is the more genuine arguments people put forward you are now bunkering down with more ridiculous views. Describing losing 6-0 to Bolton as a ‘massive surprise’ after earlier hammerings when Johnson has had these players all season then in the same breath describing a 2-1 defeat at home to MKdons as ‘a disgrace’ when the manager has just arrived. Thise comments alone show where you are coming from really. I’m all for independent thought but from the early stages of these arguments you have lost the ability to argue rationally.
 
Tightened the defence. It was embarrassing conceding so many under LJ. As for the rest the jury is out but I think he will sort it either this or next season

We conceded 1 goal or less on 22 of 29 games this season under Lee Johnson. There were a couple of bad results but I think some should revise their expectations, given the strength of the squad overall.
 
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