Accept we arent going up automatically this year

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Robanner

Midfield
I don't disagree with some medium term planning for a change. But it keeps coming back to the same thing for me - why, even with a more considered and strategic approach, does anyone believe that we will be able to attract better quality players and management team? We are the biggest fish in this tiny pool as it is and we pay well, shouldn't we already, and with ease, be able to attract the best talent at this level? The answer sadly appears not despite having a huge competitive advantage over our supposed rivals.

Returning to this season, without a decent goal scorer we are not going to achieve anything. Despite spending cash on what we have it isn't clearly good enough. Don't get me wrong, there are deficiencies across the park, but strikers win you games, and ours are mediocre at best and sadly are easy to set up to defend against. The season is far from over but we would need to spend some decent wedge in January and if we do that we'd need to break the habit of a lifetime and get in proven quality that can hit the ground running.
 


Roker Mackem

Striker
We didn't get played of the park they scored with the only shot on goal

We are twelve points ahead of mk dons and Wimbledon having played 2less you haven't realised how shit the league is

Its nothing like the championship season we are twelve points ahead of the strugglers and played 2less games we will not be anywhere near the bottom
Well I didnt say with certainty.. but we've certainly got more chance of relegation than top two
 

Kermit

Central Defender
I don't disagree with some medium term planning for a change. But it keeps coming back to the same thing for me - why, even with a more considered and strategic approach, does anyone believe that we will be able to attract better quality players and management team? We are the biggest fish in this tiny pool as it is and we pay well, shouldn't we already, and with ease, be able to attract the best talent at this level? The answer sadly appears not despite having a huge competitive advantage over our supposed rivals.

Returning to this season, without a decent goal scorer we are not going to achieve anything. Despite spending cash on what we have it isn't clearly good enough. Don't get me wrong, there are deficiencies across the park, but strikers win you games, and ours are mediocre at best and sadly are easy to set up to defend against. The season is far from over but we would need to spend some decent wedge in January and if we do that we'd need to break the habit of a lifetime and get in proven quality that can hit the ground running.
I suppose what i mean is, try to get these players before they become hard to attract. That is easier said than done of course but try to get them on an upward curve rather the downwards one we usually do. Have a look in league 2. Are there any there showing promise you could pick up for buttons? Abroad? Scandinavia where our new superscout is from? Decide who we want to keep from the current group. Sign a spine of proven performers from league one. Good characters, seasoned pros. Prioritise pace and power. Basically do the opposite of everything weve dine for the last decade! It definitely can be done and we have the natural advantage of our size. We just need to be creative.
 
This goes against every fibre of my being and people will rightly say, "its only November and we are only 8 points of second". A third season at this level is an absolute disaster, there is no doubt about that. However, if we dont win the next two games, even the most 'glass half full' supporter will surely concede it is highly unlikely we will make the top two.

If, after the next two, the worst has happened i think it would be better to take a longer term view and just target next season. Give parkinson this window and then until February to see if we start to move in the right direction. In the meantime get a plan together of what kind of side we want to be. Identify managers that suit that and forensically research them. Get the references done and get it down to a pool of two or three that we can realistically attract. Task the scouts with identifying the sort of players we think would suit how our 2 or 3 candidates would like to play, (as we have identified the kind of manager we want these should suit all 3). Aim to end January with a rough list of managers and players.

If in February, things are looking ok under parkinson, make the decision whether you stick with him until the end of the season. If you want rid, get one of those managers and use the remainder of the season to get him in, assess what hes got and get the incomings and outgoings under way, ready for a full on assault on the title next year.

Its totally counter intuitive to me to effectively write the season off, but we have to start being realistic. Rather than short term, reactive thinking where we are always chasing our tails and putting sticking plasters over things, maybe try a longer term, proactive approach. It is a painful thought but who knows? The acceptance the top two is off the table may release some pressure and negativity and see a up turn in performances and a surge going into the play offs.
It has always been as clear as day that this team won't get out of this league.

Good enough in all areas of the pitch except upfront.

If we can stay around 8 points off the top at January, and then we bring someone in who can score goals at this level on a regular basis, then we probably will still go up.

But, without a goal scorer, 99% of the time it doesn't happen in any league, anywhere; and that is our one and only problem at this level.

It is absolute horseshit to talk about changing managers all of the time. It could be a combination of Bob Paisley, Alex Ferguson, Howard Kendal, Jose the Portuguese fella, Jurgen Klopp and whomever else you want to add. If he doesn't have a goal scorer, and he doesn't have the money to buy one, then he or that combination will not get us out of this league. And, that's it. Struggling because we don't have a goal scorer upfront.
 

Kermit

Central Defender
It has always been as clear as day that this team won't get out of this league.

Good enough in all areas of the pitch except upfront.

If we can stay around 8 points off the top at January, and then we bring someone in who can score goals at this level on a regular basis, then we probably will still go up.

But, without a goal scorer, 99% of the time it doesn't happen in any league, anywhere; and that is our one and only problem at this level.

It is absolute horseshit to talk about changing managers all of the time. It could be a combination of Bob Paisley, Alex Ferguson, Howard Kendal, Jose the Portuguese fella, Jurgen Klopp and whomever else you want to add. If he doesn't have a goal scorer, and he doesn't have the money to buy one, then he or that combination will not get us out of this league. And, that's it. Struggling because we don't have a goal scorer upfront.
I wish i shared your optimism mate. Do you really think we are one player away from promotion though? I think the side, particularly midfield is lacking in power and physicality, there is also little pace throughout the side. Its not like we are pissing on teams to be undone by poor finishing. Your claims do have some validity and the stats show we regularly have more shots than the opposition. This would suggest a better striker with better shooting /finishing would convert more of those into goals. However there are more concerning statistics. Just as an example, the last game against Gillingham, we had only 47% possession. Granted this was away and we rested a couple of defenders but these are 14th in league one. Its not just bad luck or poor finishing. We dont have the greatest record against the better teams in the division and have only taken 6 points from 21 against the teams above us this season.
 

Mk Mackem

Midfield
Yeah agreed. It’d have to be an unprecedented collapse for that to happen. I could see us being in more danger next season, though, if the same people are using the same methods to recruit players.

Agree with the OP - albeit I’d be doing it regardless of what happens in the next two games. I’d start by putting in place the very best technical director/DoF type we can find. He has to be someone who lives and dies by a modern and broad approach to football. If I hear the word ‘contacts’ I’ll burn down the AoL. That’s the key. All football decision making removes from Donald, Hill and Coton. New guy to make any structural changes he feels necessary and to set the identity and strategy of the football club. Everything comes from that structure and that appointment. Everything else is more of the same - and will ultimately limit us.
I don't disagree with any of your comments marra..
 

McMackem

Striker
It's a funny old game - we're obviously heading for two losses in the next two you would think - and then things will look terminal for the season. But let's actually play the games first and see what happens...
 

Roker 73

Central Defender
If we stick with Parkinson we wont make the playoffs.
I was hoping we would use the 10 day break in between games to sack Phil Parkinson and bring in a new manager (perhaps SKP).

Never mind.... SD swallow your pride and do the right thing.
It’s not too late.
 

DJM

Winger
Yeah agreed. It’d have to be an unprecedented collapse for that to happen. I could see us being in more danger next season, though, if the same people are using the same methods to recruit players.
But this is the point, mate.
With the current setup, the only way is down.
 

The Fish

Winger
I don't disagree with some medium term planning for a change. But it keeps coming back to the same thing for me - why, even with a more considered and strategic approach, does anyone believe that we will be able to attract better quality players and management team? We are the biggest fish in this tiny pool as it is and we pay well, shouldn't we already, and with ease, be able to attract the best talent at this level? The answer sadly appears not despite having a huge competitive advantage over our supposed rivals.

Returning to this season, without a decent goal scorer we are not going to achieve anything. Despite spending cash on what we have it isn't clearly good enough. Don't get me wrong, there are deficiencies across the park, but strikers win you games, and ours are mediocre at best and sadly are easy to set up to defend against. The season is far from over but we would need to spend some decent wedge in January and if we do that we'd need to break the habit of a lifetime and get in proven quality that can hit the ground running.
Got naff all to do with me, but I'd suggest it's not Sunderland that's failing to get the right players/manager in, it's the owners and staff?

"smaller" clubs than Sunderland have recruited well from when they were in the lower leagues, all th way through to the Premier League. It's not that Sunderland is unattractive to players, it's that it's either not being sold well, or it's being sold to the wrong men.
 
Based on Parkinson's performance to date I'd be amazed if anyone actually believed we had a prey of going up. Anyone relying on a transfer window bump will be doubly dissappointed. What a strange thread. The only chance would be a Keane type bounce and that's not going to happen
 

Chewit

Winger
This goes against every fibre of my being and people will rightly say, "its only November and we are only 8 points of second". A third season at this level is an absolute disaster, there is no doubt about that. However, if we dont win the next two games, even the most 'glass half full' supporter will surely concede it is highly unlikely we will make the top two.

If, after the next two, the worst has happened i think it would be better to take a longer term view and just target next season. Give parkinson this window and then until February to see if we start to move in the right direction. In the meantime get a plan together of what kind of side we want to be. Identify managers that suit that and forensically research them. Get the references done and get it down to a pool of two or three that we can realistically attract. Task the scouts with identifying the sort of players we think would suit how our 2 or 3 candidates would like to play, (as we have identified the kind of manager we want these should suit all 3). Aim to end January with a rough list of managers and players.

If in February, things are looking ok under parkinson, make the decision whether you stick with him until the end of the season. If you want rid, get one of those managers and use the remainder of the season to get him in, assess what hes got and get the incomings and outgoings under way, ready for a full on assault on the title next year.

Its totally counter intuitive to me to effectively write the season off, but we have to start being realistic. Rather than short term, reactive thinking where we are always chasing our tails and putting sticking plasters over things, maybe try a longer term, proactive approach. It is a painful thought but who knows? The acceptance the top two is off the table may release some pressure and negativity and see a up turn in performances and a surge going into the play offs.
You talk some sense. The annoying thing is the suggestion this approach is a new idea. We were supposed to be going down these lines from day 1 but everything has been banked on promotion.
This division was the first time in a long time not about survival.. we could build a model an identity. 18 months later we are further behind where we started. The football strategy has been all wrong and I don’t blame Ross for that.
Why should we trust this club has the intelligence and will to do what you suggest ?
black is back
 
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oddbod

Winger
This goes against every fibre of my being and people will rightly say, "its only November and we are only 8 points of second". A third season at this level is an absolute disaster, there is no doubt about that. However, if we dont win the next two games, even the most 'glass half full' supporter will surely concede it is highly unlikely we will make the top two.

If, after the next two, the worst has happened i think it would be better to take a longer term view and just target next season. Give parkinson this window and then until February to see if we start to move in the right direction. In the meantime get a plan together of what kind of side we want to be. Identify managers that suit that and forensically research them. Get the references done and get it down to a pool of two or three that we can realistically attract. Task the scouts with identifying the sort of players we think would suit how our 2 or 3 candidates would like to play, (as we have identified the kind of manager we want these should suit all 3). Aim to end January with a rough list of managers and players.

If in February, things are looking ok under parkinson, make the decision whether you stick with him until the end of the season. If you want rid, get one of those managers and use the remainder of the season to get him in, assess what hes got and get the incomings and outgoings under way, ready for a full on assault on the title next year.

Its totally counter intuitive to me to effectively write the season off, but we have to start being realistic. Rather than short term, reactive thinking where we are always chasing our tails and putting sticking plasters over things, maybe try a longer term, proactive approach. It is a painful thought but who knows? The acceptance the top two is off the table may release some pressure and negativity and see a up turn in performances and a surge going into the play offs.
There was a fan on total sport tonight said that he had spoken to charlie recently and charlie had said he didnt expect us to get promoted this year!He is allways on there and has some way out ideas (im being polite here)but if true its depressing!I think we will know for sure in January!
 
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