A Judge with a Brain, finally

CatRyan said:
So he was handed a death sentence for an accident.

The issue here is elderly drivers who shouldn't be driving. When I first started driving I had my foot slip on the peddles because my shoes were wet so I make sure my shoes are dry now. I mean he may have been an excellent driver as my father was but we took his car keys away when he was in his late 70s.
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Bizarre analysis.

1) No such thing as 'accidents' in road traffic collisions. Someone is to blame.

2) It wasn't a death sentence. He happened to die in prison. He could have got a simple caution and died at home
 


Just to add a bit of context to this from the original reports when he was convicted. He drove into a bollard, and in his own words this left him "raging with myself by that time". Bystanders saw him get back in angry, and slam his door, and he then put his car into reverse by mistake, and then hit the gas and not the brake by mistake, just missing a dad and child, and then hitting the woman he killed and the woman he maimed.The car only stopped when he hit another bollard, a hundred feet away.

I reckon that his admission that he had already hit something, that as a result he was driving angry, and then went back at quite a rate of knots (19mph) is probably what led to the dangerous rather than careless driving charge.

Maybe the fact that he never made any apology to the victim's families didn't do him any favours either.

Also worth bearing in mind that unlike us, the judge will have seen the medical evidence in relation to his sentencing.
 
The King of Um said:
Just to add a bit of context to this from the original reports when he was convicted. He drove into a bollard, and in his own words this left him "raging with myself by that time". Bystanders saw him get back in angry, and slam his door, and he then put his car into reverse by mistake, and then hit the gas and not the brake by mistake, just missing a dad and child, and then hitting the woman he killed and the woman he maimed.The car only stopped when he hit another bollard, a hundred feet away.

I reckon that his admission that he had already hit something, that as a result he was driving angry, and then went back at quite a rate of knots (19mph) is probably what led to the dangerous rather than careless driving charge.

Maybe the fact that he never made any apology to the victim's families didn't do him any favours either.

Also worth bearing in mind that unlike us, the judge will have seen the medical evidence in relation to his sentencing.
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The GP’s medical opinion should not be dismissed so readily, by a judge who is not a clinician.
 
Hull_Mackem said:
Bizarre analysis.

1) No such thing as 'accidents' in road traffic collisions. Someone is to blame.

2) It wasn't a death sentence. He happened to die in prison. He could have got a simple caution and died at home
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  1. Yes there is such thing as an accident in road traffic collisions if the person talking about it is referring to a lack of intent and not using the legal definition ascertaining the negligence of an incident. In other words you're being pedantic.
  2. It did sort of end up like that eventhough he probably would have died anyway.
 
Frijj said:
The GP’s medical opinion should not be dismissed so readily, by a judge who is not a clinician.
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Who is he to judge?
The King of Um said:
Just to add a bit of context to this from the original reports when he was convicted. He drove into a bollard, and in his own words this left him "raging with myself by that time". Bystanders saw him get back in angry, and slam his door, and he then put his car into reverse by mistake, and then hit the gas and not the brake by mistake, just missing a dad and child, and then hitting the woman he killed and the woman he maimed.The car only stopped when he hit another bollard, a hundred feet away.

I reckon that his admission that he had already hit something, that as a result he was driving angry, and then went back at quite a rate of knots (19mph) is probably what led to the dangerous rather than careless driving charge.

Maybe the fact that he never made any apology to the victim's families didn't do him any favours either.

Also worth bearing in mind that unlike us, the judge will have seen the medical evidence in relation to his sentencing.
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Sounds like the judge got it spot on.
 
The King of Um said:
Just to add a bit of context to this from the original reports when he was convicted. He drove into a bollard, and in his own words this left him "raging with myself by that time". Bystanders saw him get back in angry, and slam his door, and he then put his car into reverse by mistake, and then hit the gas and not the brake by mistake, just missing a dad and child, and then hitting the woman he killed and the woman he maimed.The car only stopped when he hit another bollard, a hundred feet away.

I reckon that his admission that he had already hit something, that as a result he was driving angry, and then went back at quite a rate of knots (19mph) is probably what led to the dangerous rather than careless driving charge.

Maybe the fact that he never made any apology to the victim's families didn't do him any favours either.

Also worth bearing in mind that unlike us, the judge will have seen the medical evidence in relation to his sentencing.
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So what we have here is a stubborn old man who’s reckless actions have taken the life of someone else, and he hasn’t even has the good grace to offer an apology.

I really don’t see what choice the judge had. Losing his license or a suspended sentence isn’t much of a punishment.
Frijj said:
The GP’s medical opinion should not be dismissed so readily, by a judge who is not a clinician.
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Who said it was readily dismissed? The judge herself said she considered the sentence very carefully and didn’t hand it down lightly.
 
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I know it sounds awful and I bet stats will say younger people cause more accidents, but when you reach say 75 you should be tested every 12 months or so to see if your still an able driver, for your own safety and safety of others.
 
pillars of hercules said:
  1. Yes there is such thing as an accident in road traffic collisions if the person talking about it is referring to a lack of intent and not using the legal definition ascertaining the negligence of an incident. In other words you're being pedantic.
  2. It did sort of end up like that eventhough he probably would have died anyway.
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Not really pedantic, as this is a thread about whether he should have been in prison or not. So the legal definition is important surely.

The chap was responsible for the collision.
 
Hull_Mackem said:
Not really pedantic, as this is a thread about whether he should have been in prison or not. So the legal definition is important surely.

The chap was responsible for the collision.
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But it's people on a message board talking about whether the act was deliberate, not talking about the legality. I think its important to distinguish the two.

Am I right to assume we can agree that the old bloke was negligent in his part of a road traffic incident and deserved to be punished, but he killed her accidentally?
 
pillars of hercules said:
But it's people on a message board talking about whether the act was deliberate, not talking about the legality. I think its important to distinguish the two.

Am I right to assume we can agree that the old bloke was negligent in his part of a road traffic incident and deserved to be punished, but he killed her accidentally?
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Yes, he didn't kill her on purpose, otherwise it would have been a murder charge not death by dangerous driving.

Worth noting death by dangerous though, rather than the lesser offence of death by careless. If this was a 20 year old there would be condemnation of the driver, not sure why this chap should be treated any differently?
 
Hull_Mackem said:
Yes, he didn't kill her on purpose, otherwise it would have been a murder charge not death by dangerous driving.

Worth noting death by dangerous though, rather than the lesser offence of death by careless. If this was a 20 year old there would be condemnation of the driver, not sure why this chap should be treated any differently?
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Like I said people had commented that he had accidentally killed her. He deserved to be punished and was no doubt dangerous driving.
 
The King of Um said:
Just to add a bit of context to this from the original reports when he was convicted. He drove into a bollard, and in his own words this left him "raging with myself by that time". Bystanders saw him get back in angry, and slam his door, and he then put his car into reverse by mistake, and then hit the gas and not the brake by mistake, just missing a dad and child, and then hitting the woman he killed and the woman he maimed.The car only stopped when he hit another bollard, a hundred feet away.

I reckon that his admission that he had already hit something, that as a result he was driving angry, and then went back at quite a rate of knots (19mph) is probably what led to the dangerous rather than careless driving charge.

Maybe the fact that he never made any apology to the victim's families didn't do him any favours either.

Also worth bearing in mind that unlike us, the judge will have seen the medical evidence in relation to his sentencing.
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That’s shocking. Deserved sentence despite his age, hopefully this sohas inspired a few ancient road users to permanently hang up their keys
Skandhaless said:
No winners here, lets not show ourselves up .

You would take mine from my cold dead hand 'daughter '.... I have always prided myself on my driving , if it started to slip ( to the degree i couldnt compensate by reasonable caution ) i would be the first to chuck the keys .
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I bet every old person who’s ever seriously injured or killed someone got in their car thinking they were just as good drivers as they were at 40. You’re not going to wake up one day unable to drive well, it’ll be a gradual process you won’t even notice. Once the kids say you’re driving is shit due to age f***ing listen to them and not your massively swollen ego....
 
The King of Um said:
Just to add a bit of context to this from the original reports when he was convicted. He drove into a bollard, and in his own words this left him "raging with myself by that time". Bystanders saw him get back in angry, and slam his door, and he then put his car into reverse by mistake, and then hit the gas and not the brake by mistake, just missing a dad and child, and then hitting the woman he killed and the woman he maimed.The car only stopped when he hit another bollard, a hundred feet away.

I reckon that his admission that he had already hit something, that as a result he was driving angry, and then went back at quite a rate of knots (19mph) is probably what led to the dangerous rather than careless driving charge.

Maybe the fact that he never made any apology to the victim's families didn't do him any favours either.

Also worth bearing in mind that unlike us, the judge will have seen the medical evidence in relation to his sentencing.
Click to expand...
I didn't realise he was in a rage. The information in the article said he hit the accelerator instead of the brake. If that's the case he deserves his sentence.
 

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