75 years since the bomb

[Tadger]

Hopefully it will never happen again.

The Pacific Theatre of WW2 was one of the most brutal combat situations in history. The Japanese at the time were fanatical and did not view death in the same manner as any other nation in the conflict. To die in battle wasn’t just an honour, it was desirable. Surrender was shameful. You hear the horror stories about American and I dare say British soldiers executing Japanese POWs and at face value it‘s a war crime, but they would set off grenades when captured, produce knives after surrendering etc. it got to the point where they saw a “dead” Japanese solider they would shoot or bayonet the body to make sure.

You look at that in the context of dropping the bombs, you can see why a conventional war would have lasted years.

 

[Kevj]

Tbh, there is no definitive answer to the question. Something that supports the argument that the japanese would just have carried on fighting is the perceverence of the japanese hold outs on pacific islands who carried on fighting for decades after the war. They were still being shot by local police, surrendering or being arrested well into the 1970s I believe.
Edit: Indeed the last one was repatriated in 1974!

Final straggler: the Japanese soldier who outlasted Hiroo Onoda

The idea of a fanatical Japanese soldier, unaware the war is over, fighting on for decades in the jungles of some remote Pacific island is so familiar it has become a cliché. But Teruo Nakamura, th…

mikedashhistory.com

Sorry for the bump. I did a search before posting a new thread and this came up in the search results.

It looks like they’ve made a movie about this, it’s done well at Cannes and is 8/10 on IMDB.

Onoda: 10,000 Nights In The Jungle

Onoda - 10.000 Nächte im Dschungel (2021) ⭐ 7.2 | Adventure, Drama, History

2h 53m | 12

m.imdb.com

 

[cosmicchris00]

Sorry for the bump. I did a search before posting a new thread and this came up in the search results.

It looks like they’ve made a movie about this, it’s done well at Cannes and is 8/10 on IMDB.

Onoda: 10,000 Nights In The Jungle

Onoda - 10.000 Nächte im Dschungel (2021) ⭐ 7.2 | Adventure, Drama, History

2h 53m | 12

m.imdb.com

I read an account of this story years ago.

Didn't he return to Japan after finally 'surrendering' only to find it so changed that he moved to Hawaii in disgust or summat?

 

[Big Jeff]

There is a school of thought that says the Japanese only surrendered fearing invasion by the soviets not the result of the two nuclear bombs.

Let’s hope we never see one deployed again.

For all our sakes.

 

[Jon Dough]

Didn't he return to Japan after finally 'surrendering' only to find it so changed that he moved to Hawaii in disgust or summat?

Moved to Brazil,beef farming, he was pardoned by marcos for the Filipino civilians he murdered and robbed after the war had ended.

 

[legend7]

The only known survivor of both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bombs lived to the age of ninety-three with only a slightly deaf ear.

He didn’t really mind, though, since the other 3 worked fine.

Read a great article about him once, how unlucky.
( not the 3 ears obvs, I'll have to use that one!)

 

[DieselBert]

That was certainly the argument for unleashing the Bombs, but it is far from an undebateable fact. The Japanese were beaten and they knew it. The Soviets had joined the war against them and invaded Manchuria. The war in Germany had ended so the Japanese would now be facing the combined military strength of all of the allies. There is certainly a fair argument to say that they weren't far away and that a simple naval blockade would have ended it.

The fact is that we will never know as that was the way that the USA chose to end the war, the alternative is that the Japanese may have fought on for a year or they may have surrendered 2 weeks later anyway. We'll never know.

It was probably as much a demonstration of power to the USSR as it was a coupe de grace to Japan, in fairness.

Is they any argument to suggest that the Yanks unleashed the atomic bomb to stop the Soviets taking control of Japan. The kind of military manouerve that would be more in keeping with the Cold War.
Not suggesting it was as I don't know nearly enough to hold a credible opinion but a Soviet controlled post war Japan would have been a nightmare for the USA. The bombs seem to have done them a favour in that respect

 

[Kent_Mackem]

There is a school of thought that says the Japanese only surrendered fearing invasion by the soviets not the result of the two nuclear bombs.

Let’s hope we never see one deployed again.

For all our sakes.

If it can happen it will, given enough time. Probably due to a glitch in ageing software and hardware or a mistake by a human.

What a classy and intelligent species….. to have thousands of such totally destructive and devastating warheads pointing at each other and with only the threat of mutually assured destruction prevents us from launching.

Why the feck, as a species, we just can’t clash our collective heads together, scrap the lot of them and put the money, resources and time instead towards something worthwhile like addressing climate change and switching over ASAP to renewable energy?

 

[cosmicchris00]

Is they any argument to suggest that the Yanks unleashed the atomic bomb to stop the Soviets taking control of Japan. The kind of military manouerve that would be more in keeping with the Cold War.
Not suggesting it was as I don't know nearly enough to hold a credible opinion but a Soviet controlled post war Japan would have been a nightmare for the USA. The bombs seem to have done them a favour in that respect

Neither would have fancied an assault on Japan with ground troops.

The yanks were equipped for it and actually had battle hardened troops.

I doubt the Soviets could have done it without losing millions more men plus they would have had to build up the right equipment levels from scratch.

 

[DieselBert]

Neither would have fancied an assault on Japan with ground troops.

The yanks were equipped for it and actually had battle hardened troops.

I doubt the Soviets could have done it without losing millions more men plus they would have had to build up the right equipment levels from scratch.

Weren't the Chinese already at war with Japan with Soviet support. Christ just image the carnage if the Soviets allied with China to invade Japan after what the Japanese did in Nanking. It doesn't bare thinking about.
Also if the Soviets invaded and turned Japan and unified Korea into Communist countries. The consequence to the world if South Korea and Japan spent the Cold War years as Communist dictatorships and not the technological advanced capitalist countries there became.

 

[PinzaC55]

Thought this was more than worth a thread and couldn't see one already.

Japan today mark 75th anniversary of the dropping of the second atomic bomb (fiorst being the trinity test bomb in los alamo new mexico). The world has changed hugely over the last 75 years and its important the world remembers how destructive these weapons are. Theres a place as a deterant but we should do all we can to ensure non-proliferation and ease tensons in areas like India/Pakistan where use of the bomb could occur.

Theres a massive argument over weather the bomb should have been used as Japan were essentially beaten, Col Paul Tibbets (pilot of Enola Gay which dropped the bomb) was adimant that they saved hundreds of thousands of allied lives, it also sent a message to the soviets. However the death toll was huge and the effects of radioactivity terrible. Trueman would threaten the bomb many times after WW2 ended and it seemed nucelar war was enevitable. We seemed to have stepped back from the brink as a species. Hopefully we learn our lessions.

Bells toll to mark 75 years since Hiroshima bomb

The Trinity test device was known as the Gadget and it wasn't dropped, it was detonated on top of a tower. The Hiroshima bomb was the first atomic bomb.

 

[cosmicchris00]

Weren't the Chinese already at war with Japan with Soviet support. Christ just image the carnage if the Soviets allied with China to invade Japan after what the Japanese did in Nanking. It doesn't bare thinking about.
Also if the Soviets invaded and turned Japan and unified Korea into Communist countries. The consequence to the world if South Korea and Japan spent the Cold War years as Communist dictatorships and not the technological advanced capitalist countries there became.

You're correct in your assessment of the dire state if Commies and Bolshies had proliferated all over East Asia.

However, at the time, nobody really knew what Stalin's intentions were.

His war weary army didn't even attack the Japanese in Manchuria until they were in a seriously weakened state and their relationship with China was also unclear (their alliance was convenient with Imperial Japan on the rampage).

The Chinese were way behind in military terms and relied heavily on overwhelming numbers in many assaults - which didn't seem to work well when they were seemingly in permanent retreat against Japan

 

[Pnematic]

If it can happen it will, given enough time. Probably due to a glitch in ageing software and hardware or a mistake by a human.

What a classy and intelligent species….. to have thousands of such totally destructive and devastating warheads pointing at each other and with only the threat of mutually assured destruction prevents us from launching.

Why the feck, as a species, we just can’t clash our collective heads together, scrap the lot of them and put the money, resources and time instead towards something worthwhile like addressing climate change and switching over ASAP to renewable energy?

If we scrapped them the cash would be spend on conventional weapons I fear.
Then there would probably be an almighty kick off .
Rock and a hard place .

 

[Kent_Mackem]

If we scrapped them the cash would be spend on conventional weapons I fear.
Then there would probably be an almighty kick off .
Rock and a hard place .

True. What a species, eh?

 

[Scotty]

You're correct in your assessment of the dire state if Commies and Bolshies had proliferated all over East Asia.

However, at the time, nobody really knew what Stalin's intentions were.

His war weary army didn't even attack the Japanese in Manchuria until they were in a seriously weakened state and their relationship with China was also unclear (their alliance was convenient with Imperial Japan on the rampage).

The Chinese were way behind in military terms and relied heavily on overwhelming numbers in many assaults - which didn't seem to work well when they were seemingly in permanent retreat against Japan

probably at least half of his armies earmarked for August Storm were'nt war weary at all - as they had spent all of WW2 in the far east having a staring contest with the Japanese

 

[cosmicchris00]

probably at least half of his armies earmarked for August Storm were'nt war weary at all - as they had spent all of WW2 in the far east having a staring contest with the Japanese

They'd lost most of their crack troops during Barbarossa.

Their leadership was in disarray due to Stalin's whimsical decisions.

Plus they knew they could just wait for the Japanese to collapse

 

[Scotty]

They'd lost most of their crack troops during Barbarossa.

Their leadership was in disarray due to Stalin's whimsical decisions.

Plus they knew they could just wait for the Japanese to collapse

can we put to bed the myth that the Far East forces were stripped once Barbarossa kicked off - they were'nt, all the reinforcements that went from East to West were from the Trans-Baikal region and regions to the west (basically what we call the 'Stans' nowadays

The manpower levels of the far east armies remained pretty static all through WW2 (and while they never had any decent equipment to start with - it was plenty decent enough to roflstomp the Japanese)

 

[Cheesy Feet]

Apologies haven’t read the whole thread but didn’t the Nagasaki bomb go off in the wrong place due to cloud cover and it meant the civilian losses were a lot less?

 

[buster]

Apologies haven’t read the whole thread but didn’t the Nagasaki bomb go off in the wrong place due to cloud cover and it meant the civilian losses were a lot less?

Tokyo didn’t get bombed because of weather conditions, I believe that Tokyo was the original target.

 

[Cheesy Feet]

Tokyo didn’t get bombed because of weather conditions, I believe that Tokyo was the original target.

No..Kokura was the original target..it had a huge munitions factory.