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5th Test

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Mrjardine said:
Hasn’t taken his chance in all fairness but he certainly deserved a crack at it. The cupboard is looking very bare going forward and I’m afraid.


Too much being made of this conversion rate imo. He’s the least of our problems. Matter of time before he starts making more regular hundreds.
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The problem is at the minute he’s the difference between us losing or winning/drawing.

He has to go big or were fucked. Has even been the case at home.
 
mackembhoy said:
The problem is at the minute he’s the difference between us losing or winning/drawing.

He has to go big or were fucked. Has even been the case at home.
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That shouldn’t be just one mans problem though, yes he’s our best player and yes you’d hope he’d convert more 50s into 100s but other need to come to party as well.
I really worry that we are heading for a really tough period of test cricket to be honest.

harmy said:
I see you've left little town mate. Who you joined for this season then?
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Tudhoe mate. You back playing?
 
rentaghost said:
You might well be right. However you only know if a player is out of their depth when they get the chance to play. You have to ask yourself why was Stoneman there in the first place?

1) Because Robson, Lyth, Hales, Jennings all had opportunities first and all proved not up to the task averaging in the twenties and getting dropped. for each of these players test match cricket identified a clear technical flaw and they kept getting out the same way easily each time. Robson, Lyth and Jennings went back to county cricket after getting dropped and never regained the form they had previously.

2) Stoneman was there because of their failures and because he is the heaviest English qualified run scorer in county cricket in the last 5 years and just had the best season of his life outscoring every English born county cricketer last year. He clearly deserved his chance.

The question is what happens now? Do we just go on the opener merry go round and try the next kid off the ranch. Who would you go for and what would be your rationale?
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Stoneman will get the New Zealand series with Hameed waiting in the wings if he fails there.

Fuck knows who the answer is at 3 if Root continues to dodge it, but it certainly isn’t Vince, Westley or Ballance
 
Mrjardine said:
That shouldn’t be just one mans problem though, yes he’s our best player and yes you’d hope he’d convert more 50s into 100s but other need to come to party as well.
I really worry that we are heading for a really tough period of test cricket to be honest.


Tudhoe mate. You back playing?
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Doubt it but I've had an offer to play for another team. Recovering from a double hernia op at the minute so will see how that goes. If I could fix the back I'd play in a heart beat.
 
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is currently in hospital with severe dehydration. Uncertainty as to whether he will be fit to resume his innings.
 
Mrjardine said:
Eddy Paynter came out to bat in Oz after being in hospital with tonsillitis. Don’t make them like that anymore!
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If the series was still alive I bet Root would come out to bat. But at 3-0 down in a game we can't win there is no point in potentially batting several hours in extreme heat when you're not well
 
One last kick in the nuts on this tour from hell (mind there's still plenty of time for more problems to arise during the limited overs leg) Won't make any difference to the result of the match but hope he recovers soon.
 
Mrjardine said:
That shouldn’t be just one mans problem though, yes he’s our best player and yes you’d hope he’d convert more 50s into 100s but other need to come to party as well.
I really worry that we are heading for a really tough period of test cricket to be honest.


Tudhoe mate. You back playing?
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Oh mate we’re utterly fucked.

Bayliss has to go as a start. His laidback approach isn’t what we need in the test arena
 
Steak Pie said:
He is earning a living, he's centrally contracted and still being paid. They don't have to let him or any other centrally contracted player go to the IPL, they don't have to let Stokes play for Durham or anyone else. The ECB could tell to go and sit at home and do nothing if they liked, he's centrally contracted, he's an employee of the ECB.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand.

IMO they are doing right by the player, they can't really pick him for England so let him go out and play club cricket.
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I could say the same to you regarding it being 'not so hard to understand'. I'm not disputing that he's being paid and earning a living. The point I'm arguing, is that legally it could be very difficult if they decided to stop him from doing IPL or any other tournament. The fact they're paying him wouldn't be a defence - because you're allowed to have other jobs and make other wages. That's not just in cricket, that's in everyday life.

The crux of it again, is, that if FTECB rejected his request to play in these tournaments - thus preventing him from earning (more) money, they would likely be in breach of employment law, or atleast his human right to work.

Even if they've got it written into his contract that they have any say on when and where he plays cricket - the Stokes camp could still make it very awkward for FTECB if they wanted to. It's one thing for them to stop him playing IPL if England need him to be fit and to play for them, but considering they've made it clear he won't be playing for them, he must be allowed to earn money elsewhere if he so wishes.

Billy Rocket said:
The right to work argument is a minefield like. The Universal Declaration says you have the right to freely choose your own work. Has Stokes already had that freedom taken from him? On the one hand, he's been prevented from playing for England. On the other, he's still in the squad and being paid for it, and no barriers have been put in his way from playing elsewhere. Does that constitute him freely working or not? Does it matter that a professional sportsperson must be actually plying their trade at their highest level to remain properly engaged in their chosen career? Minefield.
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That's kind of what I'm getting at. There's no minefield at present because FTECB are allowing him the freedom to play cricket when and where he wants (just not for them). The fact they're still paying him his England wage gets them out of any potential hot water over denying him his human right to work - as it would with any employer.

We'd see tribunals and court cases all over the place if companies suspended people without pay, en masse, everytime they had something to answer. However, that's the whole reason people are placed on 'gardening leave', they remain on full pay and so that satisfies any legal issues regarding punishment before trial and innocent until proven guilty.
 
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brandon said:
I could say the same to you regarding it being 'not so hard to understand'. I'm not disputing that he's being paid and earning a living. The point I'm arguing, is that legally it could be very difficult if they decided to stop him from doing IPL or any other tournament. The fact they're paying him wouldn't be a defence - because you're allowed to have other jobs and make other wages. That's not just in cricket, that's in everyday life.

The crux of it again, is, that if FTECB rejected his request to play in these tournaments - thus preventing him from earning (more) money, they would likely be in breach of employment law, or atleast his human right to work.

Even if they've got it written into his contract that they have any say on when and where he plays cricket - the Stokes camp could still make it very awkward for FTECB if they wanted to. It's one thing for them to stop him playing IPL if England need him to be fit and to play for them, but considering they've made it clear he won't be playing for them, he must be allowed to earn money elsewhere if he so wishes.


That's kind of what I'm getting at. There's no minefield at present because FTECB are allowing him the freedom to play cricket when and where he wants (just not for them). The fact they're still paying him his England wage gets them out of any potential hot water over denying him his human right to work - as it would with any employer.

We'd see tribunals and court cases all over the place if companies suspended people without pay, en masse, everytime they had something to answer. However, that's the whole reason people are placed on 'gardening leave', they remain on full pay and so that satisfies any legal issues regarding punishment before trial and innocent until proven guilty.
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Except you're ignoring the most crucial point, that when you sign your central contract you agree that the ECB can tell you who you can play for and when you can play.

I know the ECB aren't popular on here, but this is ridiculous.
 
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