37% of patients in hospital with covid are not being treated for covid

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Rustie Trombone

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The figures for Tuesday showed 13,045 patients in hospital WITH covid but 4,845 are not being treated primarily for covid

I realise covid causes problems for hospitals becuase of it's virulence but it seems a strange way to report cases?

And would I be correct in assuming that if we extrapolate these figures to our recorded deaths then the number of people who have actually died from covid is a massive over exaggeration?

I apologise for the Daily Mail link but it was also reported in the Guardian and LBC but I can't find their articles

www.dailymail.co.uk

Nearly 40% of NHS Covid 'patients' are not being treated for virus

NHS figures released today show there were 13,045 NHS England beds occupied by coronavirus sufferers on January 4, of which 4,845 were not mainly sick with the disease.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 


Rustie Trombone said:
The figures for Tuesday showed 13,045 patients in hospital WITH covid but 4,845 are not being treated primarily for covid

I realise covid causes problems for hospitals becuase of it's virulence but it seems a strange way to report cases?

And would I be correct in assuming that if we extrapolate these figures to our recorded deaths then the number of people who have actually died from covid is a massive over exaggeration?

I apologise for the Daily Mail link but it was also reported in the Guardian and LBC but I can't find their articles

www.dailymail.co.uk

Nearly 40% of NHS Covid 'patients' are not being treated for virus

NHS figures released today show there were 13,045 NHS England beds occupied by coronavirus sufferers on January 4, of which 4,845 were not mainly sick with the disease.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
IIRC is 14 days before and 1 day after that counts as a covid case, tested positive in that time frame its a covid case, it was a handy system but isn't fit for propose now due to the high amount of cases imo, which is why I tend to look at the people on oxygen to get a sense of how bad things are.
 
Rustie Trombone said:
The figures for Tuesday showed 13,045 patients in hospital WITH covid but 4,845 are not being treated primarily for covid

I realise covid causes problems for hospitals becuase of it's virulence but it seems a strange way to report cases?
Click to expand...
Not really. It's not just treatment that causes the strain on the NHS. Those with infectious diseases will need enhanced infectious control measures to prevent spread amongst those in hospital.
It's a simple and effective way of reporting things. It's far from perfect but a good overall reflection on impact on services

Rustie Trombone said:
And would I be correct in assuming that if we extrapolate these figures to our recorded deaths then the number of people who have actually died from covid is a massive over exaggeration?
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The number of people with Covid on death certificates is higher than the numbers reported in daily announcements.
 
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Hettonlass said:
All figures could be over exaggeration or under exaggeration, we just dont know
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I've just ordered a book called A State of Fear by Laura Dodsworth where she looks at the weaponisation of fear by the UK governments - I think this kind of reporting of data fits with that narrative
 
The small print on the “Covid death” stats always states something like: “Tested positive for Covid within 28 days of death”. Which to me sounds like they may not actually have died of Covid, they just tested positive at some point in the 28 days prior to dying. We’ll probably never know for sure.
 
Rustie Trombone said:
I've just ordered a book called A State of Fear by Laura Dodsworth where she looks at the weaponisation of fear by the UK governments - I think this kind of reporting of data fits with that narrative
Click to expand...
It's poor and quite ironic if you take a step back from what it says to look at how it says it.

There's far better, less sensationalist books about fear appeals communication.
 
chrismisterx said:
I think the model of clicks = money by the media has meant we only get extreme data, as that equals more money for them
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The BBC is, shamefully, one of the worst
rudd said:
It's poor and quite ironic if you take a step back from what it says to look at how it says it.

There's far better, less sensationalist books about fear appeals communication.
Click to expand...

Can you recommend any? Preferably around this pandemic.
 
There will be some asymptomatic cases picked up which will be a factor. But the more likely explanation medics give is that this is people getting infected which triggers another condition they have. So they don't get tested. It's still a massive problem.
 
Rustie Trombone said:
The figures for Tuesday showed 13,045 patients in hospital WITH covid but 4,845 are not being treated primarily for covid

I realise covid causes problems for hospitals becuase of it's virulence but it seems a strange way to report cases?

And would I be correct in assuming that if we extrapolate these figures to our recorded deaths then the number of people who have actually died from covid is a massive over exaggeration?

I apologise for the Daily Mail link but it was also reported in the Guardian and LBC but I can't find their articles

www.dailymail.co.uk

Nearly 40% of NHS Covid 'patients' are not being treated for virus

NHS figures released today show there were 13,045 NHS England beds occupied by coronavirus sufferers on January 4, of which 4,845 were not mainly sick with the disease.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...

One of the biggest frustrations of this whole pandemic is that the government and the health authorities have reported deaths as ‘people who have died within 28 days of testing positive’ ..... or actually in the very early days you just had to ‘show signs of COVID symptoms’ to have Covid recorded on your death certificate...... so to answer your question deaths BECAUSE of Covid are MASSIVELY over stated.

I also have personal experience of someone having Covid in their death certificate when it wasn’t Covid that cause her to die.
 
box2box said:
I think there are 170k + deaths where covid is on the death certificate, presumably wouldn’t appear unless a significant factor ?
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Aye, but you can't trust doctors or experts nowadays.
Remember the stories of people saying they were suing doctors who completed death certificates to get covid removed, there were at least two on here.
That's gone strangely quiet.
Rustie Trombone said:
Can you recommend any? Preferably around this pandemic.
Click to expand...
Personally I'd stay away from most of the new books about it and Covid at the moment. I found most of them to be ironically sensationalist, with occasional outright fallacies in them.
Stick to more generalised ones like Scare Tactics by Douglas Walton or The Language of Fear by Piotr Cap.

There's loads of free articles on Google Scholar or places like PubMed and public health journals which are easy to read and will give a better, less biased understanding.
 
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Rustie Trombone said:
The figures for Tuesday showed 13,045 patients in hospital WITH covid but 4,845 are not being treated primarily for covid

I realise covid causes problems for hospitals becuase of it's virulence but it seems a strange way to report cases?

And would I be correct in assuming that if we extrapolate these figures to our recorded deaths then the number of people who have actually died from covid is a massive over exaggeration?

I apologise for the Daily Mail link but it was also reported in the Guardian and LBC but I can't find their articles

www.dailymail.co.uk

Nearly 40% of NHS Covid 'patients' are not being treated for virus

NHS figures released today show there were 13,045 NHS England beds occupied by coronavirus sufferers on January 4, of which 4,845 were not mainly sick with the disease.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
It's an interesting point for debate although, like so many of the stats around Covid, I'm not sure what we're supposed to do with any conclusions. Other than extremists, I think we accept that Covid is real and that it has the capacity to cause death. I've known 5 people whose deaths have been linked to Covid and 3 of them seemed to be, unarguably, Covid specific. 1 caught it while in hospital for another serious condition and 1 had serious underlying conditions which would hinder their chances of recovery.

I suppose, if the figures are exaggerated, that it could influence the approach taken but although 2 years can seem a long time it's a blink of an eye in terms of medical understanding.

Would you have handled this area differently? I was never sure about the 28 days thing and it made me wary of the figures you saw on the tv every night although I must admit I couldn't build the enthusiasm to go in any deeper.
 
Billericay Dichio said:
Anything to back that up other than your opinion?
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TBF they're a lot better lately - giving 7 day rolling averages and comparing waves but they were as bad as the rest of the media in the beginning

It's not just BBC news which is clickbait - BBC sport on Facebook is equally as bad
 

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