‘Irrelevant and toxic’ Labour losing out to Ukip, inquiry finds

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If all that is true then they are fucked.


Why? Surely you can think current policy is utter madness without giving up your peshwari naan. It would be preferable to train out own health professionals as well.
Then you're not anti immigration. You may be anti some immigration but you're not against it as a concept.
 
To win voters back from UKIP, whose support is based primarily on anti-immigration rhetoric (remember when their leader once blamed being late on traffic that had been caused by immigration?), Labour would have to adopt dog whistle tactics.

Measured caution on immigration isn't enough for people who have gone to UKIP.
labour wouldnt even go that far , any mention of the word and they disappear up their own arses

the tories are avoiding the topic too. its mental

You keep confusing being anti immigration and anti-mass immigration and building a straw man argument as a result. The overwhelming majority of people in this country want to reduce immigration levels.
including immigrants already here

its common sense
 
Why is it only unskilled eastern Europeans you are worried about? What about unskilled French people or Spanish people?

Here's something you should probably look at, the unskilled British people here in our own country, where there are large amounts of people who just want to do fuck all all day/not get a job, watch Jeremy Kyle and live an easy life. Fuck those people. Every immigrant I have known within this country, especially from eastern Europe, has held a job down and been hard working at that.

I'd much rather kick out the lazy Brits that contribute nothing towards this country than stop people that are prepared to work from outside coming in.
There's not really a great deal of difference between the developed European nations is there though, really?

Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Holland, Portugal...they're all highly developed advanced countries with good working conditions.

We could quite easily live and work there. Can we live and work in Poland? Bulgaria? Romania? Without compromising our quality of life. No we can't, those countries have poorer infrastructure which is why so many young people want to leave and come here.

It isn't fair on our workers, skilled or not, that we can have an influx of workers from another market that we can't work in
 

kossoff

Striker
There's not really a great deal of difference between the developed European nations is there though, really?

Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Holland, Portugal...they're all highly developed advanced countries with good working conditions.

We could quite easily live and work there. Can we live and work in Poland? Bulgaria? Romania? Without compromising our quality of life. No we can't, those countries have poorer infrastructure which is why so many young people want to leave and come here.

It isn't fair on our workers, skilled or not, that we can have an influx of workers from another market that we can't work in
Have you actually ever been to Poland? It's a fantastic country with a decent infrastructure actually.

Guess you should throw the Czech Republic in there too and tell @Lambchops that he's made an awful decision living and working there. Utter nonsense.

I'd bet you haven't actually travelled to too many places @Frijj
 

haway

Striker
Oh dear, the right of the party aren't half going for it. Shame that they're only harming the party, Corbyn isn't going anywhere.
 
White can man wants very simple things. A secure well paid job. Am affordable house and things not to change that much. Imho.

What core labour vote backs unlimited movement of people around Europe?
54% of the country if the poll of polls on Peston this morning are correct. A remain vote is a vote for open door immigration.
 

haway

Striker
Have you actually ever been to Poland? It's a fantastic country with a decent infrastructure actually.

Guess you should throw the Czech Republic in there too and tell @Lambchops that he's made an awful decision living and working there. Utter nonsense.

I'd bet you haven't actually travelled to too many places @Frijj
TBF to Frijj I've been to all the countries he mentioned, except Denmark, Norway and Romania (but have been to others in Eastern Europe) and he has the appoint. There is a noticeable difference IMO between standards of living in Western and Eastern European countries by and large. Slovakia was one of the biggest dumps I've set foot in within Europe IMO. Don't mind Bulgaria, but its pretty under-developed.
 
Have you actually ever been to Poland? It's a fantastic country with a decent infrastructure actually.

Guess you should throw the Czech Republic in there too and tell @Lambchops that he's made an awful decision living and working there. Utter nonsense.

I'd bet you haven't actually travelled to too many places @Frijj
Did I mention the Czech Republic one way or another? Stop making this about me and where I have/have not travelled. I don't need to have travelled the world to know that Romania, Bulgaria etc are poorer than the developed West.

I don't want unskilled eastern europeans coming here and competing with our own unskilled labour, do you have an issue with that?
 
Did I mention the Czech Republic one way or another? Stop making this about me and where I have/have not travelled. I don't need to have travelled the world to know that Romania, Bulgaria etc are poorer than the developed West.

I don't want unskilled eastern europeans coming here and competing with our own unskilled labour, do you have an issue with that?
What about Irish? Or French? Cause they are all part of it as well
 
What about Irish? Or French? Cause they are all part of it as well
I have less of a problem with it if our workers can comfortably relocate there, how many young British people go work in Australia or France for a year or so? How many come here?

I see absolutely no value in taking in what are for the most part young, unskilled men from Eastern Europe. What do they add to this country? Nothing we don't already have, which is young, unskilled work!

I'm sure their work ethic is superior by far, but so it should be, they're desperate to improve their status and I don't blame them, I can't blame them, but they should be focusing their energy on improving their home country, not coming here, living three or four to a house and delivering pizzas, stacking shelves or washing cars man.

We have a youth unemployment problem. Let's fix that instead of shipping in more young unskilled work, and making it harder for British workers to get jobs in their home country.
 
I have less of a problem with it if our workers can comfortably relocate there, how many young British people go work in Australia or France for a year or so? How many come here?

I see absolutely no value in taking in what are for the most part young, unskilled men from Eastern Europe. What do they add to this country? Nothing we don't already have, which is young, unskilled work!

I'm sure their work ethic is superior by far, but so it should be, they're desperate to improve their status and I don't blame them, I can't blame them, but they should be focusing their energy on improving their home country, not coming here, living three or four to a house and delivering pizzas, stacking shelves or washing cars man.

We have a youth unemployment problem. Let's fix that instead of shipping in more young unskilled work, and making it harder for British workers to get jobs in their home country.
common sense answer
 
I have less of a problem with it if our workers can comfortably relocate there, how many young British people go work in Australia or France for a year or so? How many come here?

I see absolutely no value in taking in what are for the most part young, unskilled men from Eastern Europe. What do they add to this country? Nothing we don't already have, which is young, unskilled work!

I'm sure their work ethic is superior by far, but so it should be, they're desperate to improve their status and I don't blame them, I can't blame them, but they should be focusing their energy on improving their home country, not coming here, living three or four to a house and delivering pizzas, stacking shelves or washing cars man.

We have a youth unemployment problem. Let's fix that instead of shipping in more young unskilled work, and making it harder for British workers to get jobs in their home country.
Some valid points but getting back to the original point of the thread, Labour can't oppose that and support EU membership. Free movement is a key principle of it. It would be ludicrous for Labour to start using UKIP rhetoric to win back voters whilst being unapologetically pro-Europe. If Labour did that, as Cruddas is hinting at, they'd alienate more voters and look more incompetent.
 

kossoff

Striker
Did I mention the Czech Republic one way or another? Stop making this about me and where I have/have not travelled. I don't need to have travelled the world to know that Romania, Bulgaria etc are poorer than the developed West.

I don't want unskilled eastern europeans coming here and competing with our own unskilled labour, do you have an issue with that?
I have a problem with you spouting unfounded arguments, yes. So out of the 3 "piss poor" countries you named, I countered one having experience of having been there on a few occasions. I also threw in another that should be considered in the same vain, but I found it to be a great country. You were discussing infrastructure in your first post and that is why people leave the country. Not quite sure that's accurate. Your argument has now changed from infrastructure to poverty.

You say it like these people wake up one day, get on a boat and walk in CEO positions. These are people that have worked harder than our own people to learn a foreign language, to move abroad to better their life. There is a market for the work that these people go into that our own people can't be assed to do eg Hotel work, cleaning, call centre work, labouring. Your argument about is it fair for our own people, yes it is, best person for the job. If someone actually is prepared to do the jobs that our own British people can't be fucked to do, fair play to them.

Let me ask you this, are you going to stay in the same town you were born in without any aspirations for increasing your pay and in turn our standard and quality of living? Why, therefore, should we prevent other people from doing so?
 
Corbyn welcomed that on Peston last week, very pro immigration thinks it continues to improve our diverse country.
So do virtually all Labour MPs. If they said otherwise they'd merely be paying it lip service and attempting to mislead voters. That's what Cameron has done since 2010 mind. Came out with claptrap about reducing numbers while all the time he was committed to EU membership and it's free movement principle
 

Newcastle Fan

Central Defender
I have a problem with you spouting unfounded arguments, yes. So out of the 3 "piss poor" countries you named, I countered one having experience of having been there on a few occasions. I also threw in another that should be considered in the same vain, but I found it to be a great country. You were discussing infrastructure in your first post and that is why people leave the country. Not quite sure that's accurate. Your argument has now changed from infrastructure to poverty.

You say it like these people wake up one day, get on a boat and walk in CEO positions. These are people that have worked harder than our own people to learn a foreign language, to move abroad to better their life. There is a market for the work that these people go into that our own people can't be assed to do eg Hotel work, cleaning, call centre work, labouring. Your argument about is it fair for our own people, yes it is, best person for the job. If someone actually is prepared to do the jobs that our own British people can't be fucked to do, fair play to them.

Let me ask you this, are you going to stay in the same town you were born in without any aspirations for increasing your pay and in turn our standard and quality of living? Why, therefore, should we prevent other people from doing so?
Go into your local WMC/Labour club and tell the lads drinking in there that their job in their hometown on a production line should be up for competition from the whole of Europe. Then tell them that you're on their side, and they should vote for a party that believes exactly that, and watch them laugh in your face.

Highly skilled well paid jobs in the UK absolutely should be subject to the forces of globalisation, as we're happy to go abroad and take advantage of identical roles there.

However at why point did we on the Left decide that low skilled, low paid jobs in the UK should be subject to those very same market forces/the power of globalisation. At what point did we become thatcherites?
 
Go into your local WMC/Labour club and tell the lads drinking in there that their job in their hometown on a production line should be up for competition from the whole of Europe. Then tell them that you're on their side, and they should vote for a party that believes exactly that, and watch them laugh in your face.

Highly skilled well paid jobs in the UK absolutely should be subject to the forces of globalisation, as we're happy to go abroad and take advantage of identical roles there.

However at why point did we on the Left decide that low skilled, low paid jobs in the UK should be subject to those very same market forces/the power of globalisation. At what point did we become thatcherites?
When you decided to vote UKIP. They're basically a Thatcherite party made up of numerous former Thatcherite Tories.
 

Newcastle Fan

Central Defender
When you decided to vote UKIP. They're basically a Thatcherite party made up of numerous former Thatcherite Tories.
Nice side step. I'm aware of the fact their support base consists of a large number of home county thatcherites. I've also pointed out numerous times on here that I would have voted labour had I lived in a marginal seat. I don't, therefore in FPTP my vote was useless, so I voted to reduce labours lead in my seat and make them work harder.
 
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