£10bn lost in tax credit fraud

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I'm asking about the organisations who are finding things tough.

Answer the question.
So because company's are struggling to survive, the workers are expected to get by on poor money, how come when times are good, these same company's don't up the wage?
 


Teed said:
So because company's are struggling to survive, the workers are expected to get by on poor money, how come when times are good, these same company's don't up the wage?

I asked whether there would be some negative impact if the minimum wage was increased.

Do you think there would be some negative impact?
 
What a load of old tosh, someone on minimum wage will still lose a quarter of their pay through tax's.

I saw a payslip in my old workplace where the deductions column was a negative number.

i.e. the tax credits were more than the tax and NI combined.



Also, a minumum wage worker, 37.5hrs per week earns £12k per year and will pay £800 in tax, and just over £500 in NI per year.
That's 11%

Not 25%


If they had a kid, I dare bet their tax credits would be more than this.

One of the biggest cons going, started by Thatchers government, then all governments since. Making a big song and dance about not raising the basic rate of income tax but raising NI contributions and VAT.

And lowering the thresholds massively. 40% used to be near £40k, its nearer to £30k these days. That's a 20% increase in tax on about £8k of earnings - A massive rise.
 
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I saw a payslip in my old workplace where the deductions column was a negative number.

i.e. the tax credits were more than the tax and NI combined.



Also, a minumum wage worker, 37.5hrs per week earns £12k per year and will pay £800 in tax, and just over £500 in NI per year.
That's 11%

Not 25%


If they had a kid, I dare bet their tax credits would be more than this.



And lowering the thresholds massively. 40% used to be near £40k, its nearer to £30k these days. That's a 20% increase in tax on about £8k of earnings - A massive rise.

Tax Credits dont go your pay slip.
 
I'm asking about the organisations who are finding things tough.

Answer the question.

And I'm saying the taxpayer should not be putting money into any businesses pocket via wage top ups. There was no real negative impact when MW was introduced so why should making it more respectful now bring the country to its knees? How many security or cleaning companies went bust when they overnight had to double their workers wages? At the time I don't remember any. Maybe the bosses had to holiday in Spain instead of Florida, but they didn't make mass redundancies.
 
John Steed said:
And I'm saying the taxpayer should not be putting money into any businesses pocket via wage top ups. There was no real negative impact when MW was introduced so why should making it more respectful now bring the country to its knees? How many security or cleaning companies went bust when they overnight had to double their workers wages? At the time I don't remember any. Maybe the bosses had to holiday in Spain instead of Florida, but they didn't make mass redundancies.

No real negative impact?

Reduced hours, reduced hiring and higher prices.

Do none of these seem like negative impacts to you?
 
I saw a payslip in my old workplace where the deductions column was a negative number.

i.e. the tax credits were more than the tax and NI combined.



Also, a minumum wage worker, 37.5hrs per week earns £12k per year and will pay £800 in tax, and just over £500 in NI per year.
That's 11%

Not 25%


If they had a kid, I dare bet their tax credits would be more than this.



And lowering the thresholds massively. 40% used to be near £40k, its nearer to £30k these days. That's a 20% increase in tax on about £8k of earnings - A massive rise.

I've already posted what 37 hrs would work out at = £102. 23p pr month- £61 tax - £41 . 23p NI, I know this because I've just copied it from a pay slip.
Tax credits are fine, you have to be able to get them though, not all qualify and before long, no fucker will, whatever way you look at it the lower paid are ripped off left right and centre.
 
No real negative impact?

Reduced hours, reduced hiring and higher prices.

Do none of these seem like negative impacts to you?

I think a big, big negative is the paying of slave wages.
BTW, I don't remember any of those things, I'm just taking your word for it.
If they did happen on what sort of scale were they. Did Asda and other big companies reduce hours and hiring? Or was it more Joes window cleaning service had to charge four quid a house instead of two pound fifty?
 
Some people on here need to wake up and smell the coffee.

While you bleat on about "slave wages" China, India and Brazil are getting on with it and eating your lunch.

Oh and happy new year and all that malarkey.
 
John Steed said:
I think a big, big negative is the paying of slave wages.
BTW, I don't remember any of those things, I'm just taking your word for it.
If they did happen on what sort of scale were they. Did Asda and other big companies reduce hours and hiring? Or was it more Joes window cleaning service had to charge four quid a house instead of two pound fifty?

The negative impacts I listed were those identified by the low pay commission as having occurred.

What expenses do you think a 'living wage' should sufficiently cover?
 
The negative impacts I listed were those identified by the low pay commission as having occurred.

What expenses do you think a 'living wage' should sufficiently cover?

Only in the minimum pay sector.

A living wage is hard to put a figure on but it's certainly higher than today's MW. That is obvious by the amounts we pay out in tax credits.
 
a lot on here will have fiddled the tax credits system, no way is it just foreigners.
 
John Steed said:
Only in the minimum pay sector.

A living wage is hard to put a figure on but it's certainly higher than today's MW. That is obvious by the amounts we pay out in tax credits.

I'm not really after a figure but a list of expenses you believe it should cover.

As an aside, the amount we pay out in tax credits does not necessarily logically indicate a shortfall in earnings. The credits could be artificially increasing costs in a similar manner to the increase in mortgage multipliers raising house prices.

I'm not saying that is the case, just that nobody has made a good argument one way or the other yet on this board.
 
I'm not really after a figure but a list of expenses you believe it should cover.

As an aside, the amount we pay out in tax credits does not necessarily logically indicate a shortfall in earnings. The credits could be artificially increasing costs in a similar manner to the increase in mortgage multipliers raising house prices.

I'm not saying that is the case, just that nobody has made a good argument one way or the other yet on this board.

If tax credits and other taxpayer paid subsidies such as rate rebates and housing benefit didn't exist, do you think the MW is a living wage?
In theory no full time working man should have to claim benefits, but look what we have today.
 
If tax credits and other taxpayer paid subsidies such as rate rebates and housing benefit didn't exist,
do you think the MW is a living wage?

In theory no full time working man should have to claim benefits, but look what we have today.

A childless singleton can get by easily on around £5-6k pa + rent & work travel costs.

Rent will be say £400 pcm. As its minimum wage, chances are it'll be local within walking distance.

So I'd say yes in the NE you can live on NMW providing theres no costs to get to work. However if you're living down south, rents are much higher.
 
A childless singleton can get by easily on around £5-6k pa + rent & work travel costs.

Rent will be say £400 pcm. As its minimum wage, chances are it'll be local within walking distance.

So I'd say yes in the NE you can live on NMW providing theres no costs to get to work. However if you're living down south, rents are much higher.

What are you asking that assumption on?
 
I saw a payslip in my old workplace where the deductions column was a negative number.

i.e. the tax credits were more than the tax and NI combined.



Also, a minumum wage worker, 37.5hrs per week earns £12k per year and will pay £800 in tax, and just over £500 in NI per year.
That's 11%

Not 25%


If they had a kid, I dare bet their tax credits would be more than this.



And lowering the thresholds massively. 40% used to be near £40k, its nearer to £30k these days. That's a 20% increase in tax on about £8k of earnings - A massive rise.
Which bit of basic rate did you not understand?
 
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