Man set on fire in Hong Kong

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A 70 year man has died after being hit on the head by a brick thrown by a rioter,some of the rioters have armed themselves with recurve bows and a trebuchet type catapult designed to throw fire bombs.
 


shaviessafc said:
To be fair, I would not want to be ruled by a state such as China.
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Would not like to have to live their either.
Going back next year for a week to work and always glad to get the plane home.
They have some challenges coming their way for sure.
Jon Dough said:
A 70 year man has died after being hit on the head by a brick thrown by a rioter,some of the rioters have armed themselves with recurve bows and a trebuchet type catapult designed to throw fire bombs.
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Sounds like a typical day in Stanley.
 
The trouble it only worsening and isn't going to end in the near future. Was talking to work colleagues again today over there and they are now worried much more broadly than they were before.

Or it might just be that now they are having to work from home in HK and are more comfortable saying what they really think rather than in the office where they are paranoid the phone network is being monitored by the mainland Chinese.
 
shaviessafc said:
That is what I meant. It maybe part of China but it is ruled differently, which is what rakuga has said above.

I would not want to be ruled by a government such as the Chinese in the way that they rule the rest of China.
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Whilst I sort of agree with this if you talk to the general populace (particularly in the more rural and less affluent areas of China) they are generally pretty happy with the current governance. They see it as their lives are being improved massively and they have opportunities for them and their kids which simply weren't possible 20 years ago. In the big cities you do see more criticism of the government but usually there is still an acceptance that it is OK. Now a lot of this is certainly down to a lack of information but to be honest I think in most countries if you asked the populace if they would give up the vote for a 10% year increase in affluence they'd probably say yes.
3.142 said:
The trouble it only worsening and isn't going to end in the near future. Was talking to work colleagues again today over there and they are now worried much more broadly than they were before.

Or it might just be that now they are having to work from home in HK and are more comfortable saying what they really think rather than in the office where they are paranoid the phone network is being monitored by the mainland Chinese.
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I find this paranoia about the Chinese government listening and watching people entertaining, I used to work with a bloke who was certain he was being bugged and listened too all the time - he was a mid level manager in a smallish Western Chemical company, why on earth would the Chinese bother listening to him. I am sure the Chinese government do monitor Ambassadors and certain people on lists (as all countries do) but the security services has 1.3 billion people to monitor so they wan't watch everyone though with improvements in AI if you started saying things you may start to get monitored.
 
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bomber said:
hongkong has a high standard of living and a booming economy so why dont they just get on with their lives peacefully? i read a week or two ago gdp had dropped 6% since the uprising and tourists have stopped going,it seems they are thicker than the brexiteers,btw china could run the place into the ground financially without much of a blip to their economy,amazing what some folks sacrifice because they think their voices need to be heard.
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err they want to be free
taipeisafc said:
Whilst I sort of agree with this if you talk to the general populace (particularly in the more rural and less affluent areas of China) they are generally pretty happy with the current governance. They see it as their lives are being improved massively and they have opportunities for them and their kids which simply weren't possible 20 years ago. In the big cities you do see more criticism of the government but usually there is still an acceptance that it is OK. Now a lot of this is certainly down to a lack of information but to be honest I think in most countries if you asked the populace if they would give up the vote for a 10% year increase in affluence they'd probably say yes.


I find this paranoia about the Chinese government listening and watching people entertaining, I used to work with a bloke who was certain he was being bugged and listened too all the time - he was a mid level manager in a smallish Western Chemical company, why on earth would the Chinese bother listening to him. I am sure the Chinese government do monitor Ambassadors and certain people on lists (as all countries do) but the security services has 1.3 billion people to monitor so they wan't watch everyone though with improvements in AI if you started saying things you may start to get monitored.
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yes we have the capability to record everything but then who watches everything 1 billion truman shows. And AI isn't minority report . That said the potential for abuse of crude algorithms judging people is enormous.
An advert algorithm trying to affect an election is easy 5% is a success one monitoring behaviour is another matter you are looking for .0001% of the populace
 
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taipeisafc said:
Whilst I sort of agree with this if you talk to the general populace (particularly in the more rural and less affluent areas of China) they are generally pretty happy with the current governance. They see it as their lives are being improved massively and they have opportunities for them and their kids which simply weren't possible 20 years ago. In the big cities you do see more criticism of the government but usually there is still an acceptance that it is OK. Now a lot of this is certainly down to a lack of information but to be honest I think in most countries if you asked the populace if they would give up the vote for a 10% year increase in affluence they'd probably say yes.


I find this paranoia about the Chinese government listening and watching people entertaining, I used to work with a bloke who was certain he was being bugged and listened too all the time - he was a mid level manager in a smallish Western Chemical company, why on earth would the Chinese bother listening to him. I am sure the Chinese government do monitor Ambassadors and certain people on lists (as all countries do) but the security services has 1.3 billion people to monitor so they wan't watch everyone though with improvements in AI if you started saying things you may start to get monitored.
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They don't believe they are all being constantly monitored, but they do believe that voice/word recognition triggers alerts when certain words or phrases are used. Done in conjunction with other monitoring such as spending habits, friends/connections etc means without directly monitoring anyone you can identify a lot of the people you might want to target.

None of this may be happening, but I strongly believe it is and its just a matter of how comprehensive and thorough the monitoring is, not whether it exists.
 
3.142 said:
They don't believe they are all being constantly monitored, but they do believe that voice/word recognition triggers alerts when certain words or phrases are used. Done in conjunction with other monitoring such as spending habits, friends/connections etc means without directly monitoring anyone you can identify a lot of the people you might want to target.

None of this may be happening, but I strongly believe it is and its just a matter of how comprehensive and thorough the monitoring is, not whether it exists.
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More or less my view, I just don't think it is as widespread as people think personally. The Chinese government do like to know where you are and like to track people but if monitoring the Hong Kong populace they would need a lot of people capable of understanding the various languages (including Cantonese) spoken which I don't think they have. They would reserve the language specialists for the real important people.

Incidentally the interesting fact which tends to get missed about this is that the original flare up for this current wave of protests was the proposed extradition treaty - the trigger (or excuse perhaps) for this was a guy from Hong Kong who murdered his girlfriend in Taiwan then dumped the body and fled back to Hong Kong. As there is no legal method to extradite him he is currently sitting at home as he cannot be charged for the crime he committed outside of the HK territory. Even more ludicrously the lad has offered to voluntarily go to Taiwan to face charges but this has been turned down by the Taiwan government as it would be seen as pandering to China - it is a pretty pathetic state of affairs around here at the moment.
 
taipeisafc said:
More or less my view, I just don't think it is as widespread as people think personally. The Chinese government do like to know where you are and like to track people but if monitoring the Hong Kong populace they would need a lot of people capable of understanding the various languages (including Cantonese) spoken which I don't think they have. They would reserve the language specialists for the real important people.

Incidentally the interesting fact which tends to get missed about this is that the original flare up for this current wave of protests was the proposed extradition treaty - the trigger (or excuse perhaps) for this was a guy from Hong Kong who murdered his girlfriend in Taiwan then dumped the body and fled back to Hong Kong. As there is no legal method to extradite him he is currently sitting at home as he cannot be charged for the crime he committed outside of the HK territory. Even more ludicrously the lad has offered to voluntarily go to Taiwan to face charges but this has been turned down by the Taiwan government as it would be seen as pandering to China - it is a pretty pathetic state of affairs around here at the moment.
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www.scmp.com

Hong Kong rejects Taipei’s ‘totally unacceptable’ offer on murder suspect

Government stresses in statement issued well after midnight that Taiwan has no law enforcement power in Hong Kong after Taipei offers to send police to city to take back Chan Tong-kai.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
Dave Herbal said:
@Baloo was meant to go there today but changed his mind.

I haven’t really followed the story. What’s the solution here? Independence?
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Emirates just processed the refund for the flights which is good!
 
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taipeisafc said:
More or less my view, I just don't think it is as widespread as people think personally. The Chinese government do like to know where you are and like to track people but if monitoring the Hong Kong populace they would need a lot of people capable of understanding the various languages (including Cantonese) spoken which I don't think they have. They would reserve the language specialists for the real important people.

Incidentally the interesting fact which tends to get missed about this is that the original flare up for this current wave of protests was the proposed extradition treaty - the trigger (or excuse perhaps) for this was a guy from Hong Kong who murdered his girlfriend in Taiwan then dumped the body and fled back to Hong Kong. As there is no legal method to extradite him he is currently sitting at home as he cannot be charged for the crime he committed outside of the HK territory. Even more ludicrously the lad has offered to voluntarily go to Taiwan to face charges but this has been turned down by the Taiwan government as it would be seen as pandering to China - it is a pretty pathetic state of affairs around here at the moment.
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Am I right in thinking a few countries recently switched their UN diplomatic recognition (I just made that term up) for Taiwan over to PR China rather than Rep of China/Taiwan? Is that linked to Taiwan's role in this?
 
3.142 said:
Am I right in thinking a few countries recently switched their UN diplomatic recognition (I just made that term up) for Taiwan over to PR China rather than Rep of China/Taiwan? Is that linked to Taiwan's role in this?
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They often do (usually small pacific islands) and tends to be checkbook diplomacy - the Taiwanese used to give them cash to keep recognition but now China can outspend them so a lot of places are now switching to China. Not really linked to this but directly but every little thing has an effect and the Chinese don't like to lose face so will encourage it as much as possible.
 
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