Discounts for OAPs

[c032745y]

Older people are the selfish tossers not younger people - especially baby boomers.

Literally got everything handed on a plate and done absolutely fuck all for it unlike older generations who fought in wars and the younger generations which have been hit with financial crashes and global instability.

The same people who are now voting Reform.

Every single, solitary word is garbage...

 

[Makem57]

Older people are the selfish tossers not younger people - especially baby boomers.

Literally got everything handed on a plate and done absolutely fuck all for it unlike older generations who fought in wars and the younger generations which have been hit with financial crashes and global instability.

The same people who are now voting Reform.

Read some shite on here but this takes the biscuit.

 

[Mousehold Mackem]

Older people are the selfish tossers not younger people - especially baby boomers.

Literally got everything handed on a plate and done absolutely fuck all for it unlike older generations who fought in wars and the younger generations which have been hit with financial crashes and global instability.

The same people who are now voting Reform.

You have failed the first part of your Wummary exam. Feck off back to the remedial class with the rest of the dribblers.

 

[natinnam]

Older people are the selfish tossers not younger people - especially baby boomers.

Literally got everything handed on a plate and done absolutely fuck all for it unlike older generations who fought in wars and the younger generations which have been hit with financial crashes and global instability.

The same people who are now voting Reform.

This must be a wind up, if not, parents, dad fought in the Malay insurgences, Northern Ireland and put his hand up for the falklands. Mum worked 2 jobs as dinner lady and office cleaner to live in a cheap semi in Bradford that my mum is still there on the state pension.

This was in general same across the board of baby boomers, pit, factory and farm workers etc with stay home mums then part jobs there after. Throw in high interest mortgages and strikes and mass redundancy’s in their later years.

This poster knows nothing!

 

[DaveH]

You may disagree with the premise of the thread, but you’re now coming across as a right knob Dave.

I try. This does seem the thread for it

the pensioners of yesterday have paid for the pensioners of tomorrow ad finitum. the only thing that will stop this cycle is the lack of backbone and the selfish nature of today's youth.

no.

That is only partially true.

Workers today pay NI, which goes towards their pension. If you do not have full NI contributions then you don’t get the full state pension. So people pay their own pension during their working life.

But the government does not hold a locked box with Humbug or Dave on it. Physically the money we pay in NI goes elsewhere, but the government track what we are owed long term, knowing they can pay it in the future from their billions of income. That is from the workers of the future paying for those working now. It is also not related to your wages when working.

If we turned it on it’s head and say you do have a personal pot, then one generation has to lose out to make it work. And that is pretty much getting into private pension territory. If we did that then the lower paid workers become the poorest and possibly living in poverty when older. We don’t really want that.

 

[humbug]

I try. This does seem the thread for it

That is only partially true.

Workers today pay NI, which goes towards their pension. If you do not have full NI contributions then you don’t get the full state pension. So people pay their own pension during their working life.

But the government does not hold a locked box with Humbug or Dave on it. Physically the money we pay in NI goes elsewhere, but the government track what we are owed long term, knowing they can pay it in the future from their billions of income. That is from the workers of the future paying for those working now. It is also not related to your wages when working.

If we turned it on it’s head and say you do have a personal pot, then one generation has to lose out to make it work. And that is pretty much getting into private pension territory. If we did that then the lower paid workers become the poorest and possibly living in poverty when older. We don’t really want that.

what else funds the state pension apart from ni and the taxes people pay throughout their working life?

 

[42]

what else funds the state pension apart from ni and the taxes people pay throughout their working life?

Pension are classed as benefits & are just paid out of general taxation of which NI is part of. Theres no ring fencing of pots etc. The issue is because of increasing life expectancy means current day youngsters are now paying more in to facilitate pensioners living longer, and theyll get less out because theyre having their retirement date constantly pushed back. And its fully understandable why theyre aggrieved by it.

Then when better off Pensioners are asked to contribute by losing a benefit they dont need, all he'll breaks lose. Whichever government in power at the time that has to halt the triple lock will no doubt suffer the same. That year after covid when the wages increase was ommitted from the triple lock due to wages dropping & bouncing back over furlough, I had a argument with a pension who just wouldn't accept that hed have received a double increase if the triple lock had been applied in full & was twisting about not getting said double increase. Thats the selfish bit.

If we turned it on it’s head and say you do have a personal pot, then one generation has to lose out to make it work. And that is pretty much getting into private pension territory. If we did that then the lower paid workers become the poorest and possibly living in poverty when older. We don’t really want that.

Some people have floated the idea of giving every kid at birth a lump sum which is invested. They can then add to it throughout their working lives. However, the day you start doing it means that generation of tax payers are not only paying for today's pensioners but also tomorrow's. Plus you also need safeguards in place for minimum income levels & not pissing it away as fast as you can. So maybe some kind of minimum enforced annuity will be required. Also once youre in that territory what becomes of SPA, because you can draw private pensions much earlier. Do we then restrict access to private pensions until 68?

 

[humbug]

Pension are classed as benefits & are just paid out of general taxation of which NI is part of. Theres no ring fencing of pots etc. The issue is because of increasing life expectancy means current day youngsters are now paying more in to facilitate pensioners living longer, and theyll get less out because theyre having their retirement date constantly pushed back. And its fully understandable why theyre aggrieved by it.

Then when better off Pensioners are asked to contribute by losing a benefit they dont need, all he'll breaks lose. Whichever government in power at the time that has to halt the triple lock will no doubt suffer the same. That year after covid when the wages increase was ommitted from the triple lock due to wages dropping & bouncing back over furlough, I had a argument with a pension who just wouldn't accept that hed have received a double increase if the triple lock had been applied in full & was twisting about not getting said double increase. Thats the selfish bit.

so the taxes that were paid by todays pensioners during their working careers are paying for their and other folks future pensions and it's only the selfish youngsters of today that could break that cycle.
also, bear in mind i never mentioned ni.

 

[DaveH]

Pension are classed as benefits & are just paid out of general taxation of which NI is part of. Theres no ring fencing of pots etc. The issue is because of increasing life expectancy means current day youngsters are now paying more in to facilitate pensioners living longer, and theyll get less out because theyre having their retirement date constantly pushed back. And its fully understandable why theyre aggrieved by it.

Then when better off Pensioners are asked to contribute by losing a benefit they dont need, all he'll breaks lose. Whichever government in power at the time that has to halt the triple lock will no doubt suffer the same. That year after covid when the wages increase was ommitted from the triple lock due to wages dropping & bouncing back over furlough, I had a argument with a pension who just wouldn't accept that hed have received a double increase if the triple lock had been applied in full & was twisting about not getting said double increase. Thats the selfish bit.

Though that is tarring everyone over 67 with the same brush.

What I saw about the winter fuel going, did not seem to be the pensioners complaining. It became a major political football. Anti-Starmer in Labour itself, opposition parties and right wing media were all over it. But those pensioners who are better off seemed fine. It was about trying to bring Starmer down rather than £300 less for people who don't need it.

It certainly does not seem good reason for a government to pass a law preventing private businesses marketing themselves to OAPs with discounts.

 

[42]

so the taxes that were paid by todays pensioners during their working careers are paying for their and other folks future pensions and it's only the selfish youngsters of today that could break that cycle.
also, bear in mind i never mentioned ni.

The post i replied to did mention NI.
Youngsters should be more politically active & get out & vote to get a better deal

Though that is tarring everyone over 67 with the same brush.

What I saw about the winter fuel going, did not seem to be the pensioners complaining. It became a major political football. Anti-Starmer in Labour itself, opposition parties and right wing media were all over it. But those pensioners who are better off seemed fine. It was about trying to bring Starmer down rather than £300 less for people who don't need it.

It certainly does not seem good reason for a government to pass a law preventing private businesses marketing themselves to OAPs with discounts.

I agree it was a political football from the hard right. And im sure many of the more reasonable pensioners agreed with the policy, but there was plenty moaning about it. Recall one couple interviewed said they wanted to kick starters head in that they'd lost their Xmas holiday spends or something to that effect.

 

[humbug]

The post i replied to did mention NI.
Youngsters should be more politically active & get out & vote to get a better deal

no mention of ni in that post tbf.
i agree about the youngsters mind, the one's behind them will be royally ferked.

 

[Big Bellyingham]

Slightly less. But aye.

Wow ..

 

[DaveH]

The post i replied to did mention NI.
Youngsters should be more politically active & get out & vote to get a better deal


I agree it was a political football from the hard right. And im sure many of the more reasonable pensioners agreed with the policy, but there was plenty moaning about it. Recall one couple interviewed said they wanted to kick starters head in that they'd lost their Xmas holiday spends or something to that effect.

But again that (and I am sorry if this is not your intention, but it feels like it) you want to punish all pensioners by removing discounts, because they have not died yet, some complained about the WFA, they didn't live through a world war and bought their prices before the current surge in prices. Yet this is not a government decision anyway.

I'm am really struggling to see where people are coming from on this one.

To me it sounds like a bunch of younger people complaining that older ones are getting something they are not (but will when they are older) and being envious of it. I certainly don't believe that those who were parents in the 70s and 80s had an easy and wealthy life.

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

But again that (and I am sorry if this is not your intention, but it feels like it) you want to punish all pensioners by removing discounts, because they have not died yet, some complained about the WFA, they didn't live through a world war and bought their prices before the current surge in prices. Yet this is not a government decision anyway.

I'm am really struggling to see where people are coming from on this one.

To me it sounds like a bunch of younger people complaining that older ones are getting something they are not (but will when they are older) and being envious of it. I certainly don't believe that those who were parents in the 70s and 80s had an easy and wealthy life.

That’s the thing, I’m not envious in the slightest, I don’t need the discount

Plenty of other people do. Plenty of people who live on very little. And yet there are plenty of pensioners that don’t.

That’s the point. You’re not struggling, you’re not listening. And you’re deciding people are saying things that they aren’t

 

[spitfire]

Got a nice little concession on the river boat from Putney to Greenwich yesterday. Mind you the bloody thing takes ages. It stops what seems every few hundred yards.

 

[DaveH]

--
This might be interesting when comparing the generations:

You must be logged on to see external links

Does anyone know the best method to adjust each data point for inflation or any other changes that should be required? So if I look at that and see that in 1977 the average household had £2,500 per year of disposable income, what could that get you compared to today? Or another way of phrasing that is, did people in 1977 have more cash to spend on luxuries than we have today?

One reason I'm asking is, because I am seeing people say on this thread that they have had a comfortable life and young people today have it hard. But I am just not seeing that. I saw my parents generation struggle while young people today spend a fortune on all sorts of contracts and subscriptions. While the equivalent did not exist in the late 70s, if you adjust what people spend on broadband, mobile phone (replacing handsets every couple of years), Spotify, one or two TV & Film streaming contracts, gym memberships etc etc, then look at what is spent on take-away and eating out (which was not really as much of a thing), I am seeing the current moaning generation having all these luxuries every month that my parents did not spend similarly adjusted amounts on. They couldn't afford to.

My perception is that those claims are bollocks, other people's claims are the opposite. So can the stats shed any light on the reality.

That’s the thing, I’m not envious in the slightest, I don’t need the discount

Plenty of other people do. Plenty of people who live on very little. And yet there are plenty of pensioners that don’t.

That’s the point. You’re not struggling, you’re not listening. And you’re deciding people are saying things that they aren’t

So you want discounts for OAPs and other people struggling? Like those on universal credit?

 

[Dennis]

--
This might be interesting when comparing the generations:

You must be logged on to see external links

Does anyone know the best method to adjust each data point for inflation or any other changes that should be required? So if I look at that and see that in 1977 the average household had £2,500 per year of disposable income, what could that get you compared to today? Or another way of phrasing that is, did people in 1977 have more cash to spend on luxuries than we have today?

One reason I'm asking is, because I am seeing people say on this thread that they have had a comfortable life and young people today have it hard. But I am just not seeing that. I saw my parents generation struggle while young people today spend a fortune on all sorts of contracts and subscriptions. While the equivalent did not exist in the late 70s, if you adjust what people spend on broadband, mobile phone (replacing handsets every couple of years), Spotify, one or two TV & Film streaming contracts, gym memberships etc etc, then look at what is spent on take-away and eating out (which was not really as much of a thing), I am seeing the current moaning generation having all these luxuries every month that my parents did not spend similarly adjusted amounts on. They couldn't afford to.

My perception is that those claims are bollocks, other people's claims are the opposite. So can the stats shed any light on the reality.

So you want discounts for OAPs and other people struggling? Like those on universal credit?

They were in the pub 5 or 6 days a week man

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

--
This might be interesting when comparing the generations:

You must be logged on to see external links

Does anyone know the best method to adjust each data point for inflation or any other changes that should be required? So if I look at that and see that in 1977 the average household had £2,500 per year of disposable income, what could that get you compared to today? Or another way of phrasing that is, did people in 1977 have more cash to spend on luxuries than we have today?

One reason I'm asking is, because I am seeing people say on this thread that they have had a comfortable life and young people today have it hard. But I am just not seeing that. I saw my parents generation struggle while young people today spend a fortune on all sorts of contracts and subscriptions. While the equivalent did not exist in the late 70s, if you adjust what people spend on broadband, mobile phone (replacing handsets every couple of years), Spotify, one or two TV & Film streaming contracts, gym memberships etc etc, then look at what is spent on take-away and eating out (which was not really as much of a thing), I am seeing the current moaning generation having all these luxuries every month that my parents did not spend similarly adjusted amounts on. They couldn't afford to.

My perception is that those claims are bollocks, other people's claims are the opposite. So can the stats shed any light on the reality.

So you want discounts for OAPs and other people struggling? Like those on universal credit?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

You’re talking about Spotify and broadband again. We’ve covered this.

I’m not denying that some people lived difficult lives. The point is that quite a lot of them don’t now.

I think the bit that you’re missing is that people don’t hate the elderly. Despite you pushing this narrative. And people aren’t envious of others. Again despite this narrative. But more that it’s slightly absurd that some people who don’t need specific help get it.

It’s easier for you and others to say I hate my parents however

 

[42]

But again that (and I am sorry if this is not your intention, but it feels like it) you want to punish all pensioners by removing discounts, because they have not died yet, some complained about the WFA, they didn't live through a world war and bought their prices before the current surge in prices. Yet this is not a government decision anyway.

I'm am really struggling to see where people are coming from on this one.

To me it sounds like a bunch of younger people complaining that older ones are getting something they are not (but will when they are older) and being envious of it. I certainly don't believe that those who were parents in the 70s and 80s had an easy and wealthy life.

Im not really discussing shop discounts. Im just referring to why youngster feel they get a raw deal from government, and pensioners refuse to see the bigger picture

 

[DaveH]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

You’re talking about Spotify and broadband again. We’ve covered this.

I’m not denying that some people lived difficult lives. The point is that quite a lot of them don’t now.

I think the bit that you’re missing is that people don’t hate the elderly. Despite you pushing this narrative. And people aren’t envious of others. Again despite this narrative. But more that it’s slightly absurd that some people who don’t need specific help get it.

It’s easier for you and others to say I hate my parents however

You started a thread moaning about OAPs getting discounts, and you are wondering why I think you are moaning about OAPs getting discounts. I'm not being obtuse here I am sitting thinking WTF are you talking about then.

Im not really discussing shop discounts. Im just referring to why youngster feel they get a raw deal from government, and pensioners refuse to see the bigger picture

So there are two conversations, the original topic of attacking OAPs for private businesses giving them discounts.

The other is more what you are saying, about young people feeling they have a harder life than OAPs had and have a raw deal. But I honestly do not believe that.