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SAFC - Fan Ban & Ticket Cancellations

I can remember a couple of things they’ve done. Norwich 2003 the 340 who qualified for a ticket also got a tour of the academy.

A couple of years ago the top 150 on LPs got a meet and greet with Mowbray (I think) in Quinn’s too.

Admittedly two in 22 years but they have happened!
And thats great. But its one event in 20 years speaks volumes..
I mean that just cries of jealousy, do a stadium tour if you want to do that stuff.
The club do a fair few things wrong but IFD isn’t one of them.

Sent from my aye phone in Alaska
Ha. Id love to have a look around the academy but literally zero chance to do so.

I just think they should maybe offer up similar opportunities/events for those that go week in and week out.
 

That annoys me way more than it should do when it comes around every year.

Red carpet rolled out for supporters who turn up once or twice a year.
As one of the international fans attending this weekend, I along with the many others attending are extremely fortunate and eternally grateful for the itinerary we get.

Most of the international fans are part of international branches who do a hell of a lot of work in the countries they live in.

For example, German Black Cats organised a load of stuff for fans who travelled to Augsburg as well as doing presentations on Sunderland AFC in relation to the links with Essen in Germany. Their members attend several home games a season.

The Black Cats of Italy organise a weekend party every June for SAFC fans on lake Iseo. They also raise money through different events for charities such as the Bradley Lowery foundation. They also attend several home games a season.

The North American branch are active in USA, Canada and Mexico organising meetups for every match as well as appearing on TV channels over there banging the SAFC drum. Some of their members get over several times a season.

The Bulgarian branch are active in Sofia and organise meetups in the Irish bars there. Attend several home games a season.

Our Bilbao branch has re-established long lost links between SAFC & Athletic Club Bilbao and the two cities. We also organised a junior football tournament with 300 kids between 9-13 years old to promote Sunderland AFC and the English language. Our members get over a fair bit every season. One even has a season ticket and goes to most weekend home games.

I also started the Black Cats Chat International Fans Podcast to encourage international fans and branches to give their views on all things SAFC as well as connect fans from all over the world.

I can certainly understand the frustration of fans who have been season ticket holders for many years and go home and away. I do feel there should be some sort of gesture for that loyalty.

To sum up, it would be wrong to assume that fans attending international fans day come over just for that event. Many fans and branches organise several trips to the SOL throughout the season and do a lot of work promoting SAFC in their countries.
 
As one of the international fans attending this weekend, I along with the many others attending are extremely fortunate and eternally grateful for the itinerary we get.

Most of the international fans are part of international branches who do a hell of a lot of work in the countries they live in.

For example, German Black Cats organised a load of stuff for fans who travelled to Augsburg as well as doing presentations on Sunderland AFC in relation to the links with Essen in Germany. Their members attend several home games a season.

The Black Cats of Italy organise a weekend party every June for SAFC fans on lake Iseo. They also raise money through different events for charities such as the Bradley Lowery foundation. They also attend several home games a season.

The North American branch are active in USA, Canada and Mexico organising meetups for every match as well as appearing on TV channels over there banging the SAFC drum. Some of their members get over several times a season.

The Bulgarian branch are active in Sofia and organise meetups in the Irish bars there. Attend several home games a season.

Our Bilbao branch has re-established long lost links between SAFC & Athletic Club Bilbao and the two cities. We also organised a junior football tournament with 300 kids between 9-13 years old to promote Sunderland AFC and the English language. Our members get over a fair bit every season. One even has a season ticket and goes to most weekend home games.

I also started the Black Cats Chat International Fans Podcast to encourage international fans and branches to give their views on all things SAFC as well as connect fans from all over the world.

I can certainly understand the frustration of fans who have been season ticket holders for many years and go home and away. I do feel there should be some sort of gesture for that loyalty.

To sum up, it would be wrong to assume that fans attending international fans day come over just for that event. Many fans and branches organise several trips to the SOL throughout the season and do a lot of work promoting SAFC in their countries.
All fair points and I'm up for promoting of the club. But in reality the core support is local to the club.

I don't generally think there was any resentment against any of this previously but the stance the club have made against some loyal local supporters is now causing bitterness and arguments between each other.
Absolutely no need for it and it appears to have been caused by a couple of pricks leading the ticketing operations.
 
After 150 pages it's hardly surprising it's not easy trying to get a proper handle on things and whilst I don't want to add to that, there is a 'grey' area that hasn't been discussed more generally.

At pretty much every club there are supporters clubs - usually based upon a location and long-standing set-up, when a large group from a town or village would organise travel via a coach / minibus. I know quite a few people who are involved in branches at the bigger clubs, i.e. those who easily sell their away allocation. They mostly operate the same.

Clubs have historically (in my opinion) 'allowed' such branches to operate under slightly different rules for (I think) 2 reasons.

Firstly because the volunteers who run these clubs do a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of getting tickets purchased, allocated and - subsequently - travel sorted. All the club have to do is sell by the easiest method possible and the team on the pitch benefit from the 'loyal' away following this helps create (try telling your mates who've travelled all over the country with, every two weeks, that you 'don't fancy' Shrewsbury on a midweek night and you'll soon lose face with them). When you go to almost every game with your group, it's the day-out that you go for when the football is crap (a blessing given our recent history).

The second big reason was that such groups tend to 'police' the younger / more rowdy element. No-one wants the whole group to be tainted by dickheads causing bother at a service station or in the local boozers & the consequences that come with that (a match ban if the lad who's taken your ticket acts the prick inside the ground soon focuses the mind, too).

In the modern era none of this is as straightforward as it used to be - whether that be around travel plans, or locality of members - but branches still operate in bringing fans together (sometimes, like in our overseas branches, to meet and watch the game together in a pub).

So, here's the nub of it. In the past, clubs have turned a blind eye to tickets being shared amongst the group, in whatever way works for that group. If 53 tickets are purchased en-masse using eligible ID's (a process our clubs policy allows thru the friends and family scheme) then the branch secretary gets on with the rest of it, safe in the knowledge that if it's over-subscribed he'll find a taker for a ticket even if someone drops out late, thus no-one being out of pocket.

I've been a part of such branches, and I've been a 'lone' supporter where you know the lad next to you might have benefited from taking a ticket off his mate because he just happens to be from a certain village in Co. Durham.

Not only have SAFC been complicit in this for many, many years... they've actively used the branch* in question here as something of a fallback position when it's suited them.

There's loads of examples, inc. getting a ticket in the away end for a 'VIP', or a PR exercise or - has happened at Luton a couple of year back, when they've messed up and realised there's 150 unsold tickets that they've needed to get rid of with less than 24 hours notice. At that point branch secretaries become the clubs best mates.

But we now have a different Chief Operations Officer and a different Ticket Office Manager. It would appear that these people are the belt and braces type and when 3 Leeds tickets have been found to be in the hands of people other than the named purchaser, they've asked the branch secretary for a 'word'.

Having been given honest answers, they've decided it's 'widespread misuse' of their process, and then imposed a ban on him across 3 seasons, as well as removing 65 derby tickets from others for no other reason that their branch* secretary made the purchase on their behalf (using their fairly acquired loyalty points). The club have since "recognised that some supporters have been affected through no fault of their own", but that hardly helps soften the blow, does it?

This episode shows the club in a very bad light. The lad they've scapegoated is one of the nicest and most helpful (and incredibly loyal) of supporters you'll ever meet. This action completely undermines the whole 'connected with fans' ethos they peddle to us in their marketing.

It's also throws up the incompetence of our ticket operations generally, as well as the question of where this all takes us, as fans, in the future. Are all branches going to be subjected to the same scrutiny? Can all supporters expect a draconian & heavy-handed sanction if they are complicit in a ticket being passed on between 2 SAFC supporters?

I believe there has been some concern in the club about the integrity of some supporters membership data held on the ticket portal, and who is 'authorised' to make changes on another's account under data protection, etc. Again, all this does is throw up questions about the clubs policy and processes (nb: there are over 200k membership numbers out there). I'm sure we've all seen people asking for membership ID's with a purchase history so that tickets can be purchased for certain home games this season. It's exactly the same thing.

The club could have reviewed all this properly (likely with the help of this branch* secretary, as they've done in the past) and taken the chance to involve supporters groups in designing a new, more joined-up process. They could have looked at their own part in the fiasco, i.e. the ticket offices inability to deal with even the most-straightforward of fans issues, which encourages fans to find their own solutions.

But they went in 2-footed and he we are. It begs the question whether being (hopefully) an established PL club, with designs on European football, will see the chasm between fans and club become greater, not less - as it has with many other PL clubs.

* The ticket office have long recognised this group as a 'proper' branch. If the protocol has not been followed internally to have it added to their Branch Liaison Council, that's down to the club, not the secretary.
Great summary
 
I can remember a couple of things they’ve done. Norwich 2003 the 340 who qualified for a ticket also got a tour of the academy.

A couple of years ago the top 150 on LPs got a meet and greet with Mowbray (I think) in Quinn’s too.

Admittedly two in 22 years but they have happened!
They have. That all happened. We also got offer to use a box at SoL for a midweek game. Think I was invited to Palace at home. 0-0 midweek in January.
All fair points and I'm up for promoting of the club. But in reality the core support is local to the club.

I don't generally think there was any resentment against any of this previously but the stance the club have made against some loyal local supporters is now causing bitterness and arguments between each other.
Absolutely no need for it and it appears to have been caused by a couple of pricks leading the ticketing operations.
Think in essence this is the point. A fan has been banned for help sourcing tickets for the club for overseas fans, the same fella has been banned for people he gets tickets for passing them onto those without points, the overseas fans end up at away games when dont have points and none of this is the fault of international fans. The point is the club seem to have different rules and appreciation depending on location.
 
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We’re not fans , just customers.

Unfortunately the customer service element from the club leaves a lot to be desired,especially from the staff in the ticket office.

The threads and comments on this board about how bad the ticket office is run over the years is highlighting how bad they are , but nothing has been done to improve the service given.

Those at the top of the club are either not aware what’s going on , which I find hard to believe , or they just accept the loyalty of the fans as a given and are not prepared to install changes at any cost.

Too many complaints over the years about it and nothing improves.

Why ?
 
We’re not fans , just customers.

Unfortunately the customer service element from the club leaves a lot to be desired,especially from the staff in the ticket office.

The threads and comments on this board about how bad the ticket office is run over the years is highlighting how bad they are , but nothing has been done to improve the service given.

Those at the top of the club are either not aware what’s going on , which I find hard to believe , or they just accept the loyalty of the fans as a given and are not prepared to install changes at any cost.

Too many complaints over the years about it and nothing improves.

Why ?

its every single thing they do. people may think it sounds dramatic, but it is.

every away game release is either delayed, doesn't work, restrictions placed in error and always have the phasing set totally wrong, meaning there are 100s of tickets left over after a week of sales, and no notice of further phasing.

the man united home game went on sale on tuesday, with purchase history required, but this information wasn't made public till after the sales period started. why? its basic stuff

the ticket resale hasn't even gone live for spurs yet. the game is 3 days away, and people can't list their unused tickets. why?
 
its every single thing they do. people may think it sounds dramatic, but it is.

every away game release is either delayed, doesn't work, restrictions placed in error and always have the phasing set totally wrong, meaning there are 100s of tickets left over after a week of sales, and no notice of further phasing.

the man united home game went on sale on tuesday, with purchase history required, but this information wasn't made public till after the sales period started. why? its basic stuff

the ticket resale hasn't even gone live for spurs yet. the game is 3 days away, and people can't list their unused tickets. why?


Constant incompetence.
 
We’re not fans , just customers.

Unfortunately the customer service element from the club leaves a lot to be desired,especially from the staff in the ticket office.

The threads and comments on this board about how bad the ticket office is run over the years is highlighting how bad they are , but nothing has been done to improve the service given.

Those at the top of the club are either not aware what’s going on , which I find hard to believe , or they just accept the loyalty of the fans as a given and are not prepared to install changes at any cost.

Too many complaints over the years about it and nothing improves.

Why ?
If the club is going to treat us as customers it has to get customer service absolutely perfect- because it will lose the fans understanding of the problems.

They don’t seem to grasp that little nuance to the plan.

If they are to treat us correctly as customers I have no problem- but therein lies the big issue, they aren’t competent on any level and will be wide open to complaint procedures which currently they couldnt handle. It’s a shambles and whoever is in charge is a pleb, it’s a stain on the club how piss poor they are
 
will be wide open to complaint procedures which currently they couldnt handle. It’s a shambles and whoever is in charge is a pleb,
they haven't got a complaints procedure. genius move by them

if you don't have a complaints process, then you don't receive any complaints.

they can also simply just ban anyone they don't like, or tell people to fuck off if they ask for help, as theres a 15,000 strong waiting list now
 
We’re not fans , just customers.

Unfortunately the customer service element from the club leaves a lot to be desired,especially from the staff in the ticket office.

The threads and comments on this board about how bad the ticket office is run over the years is highlighting how bad they are , but nothing has been done to improve the service given.

Those at the top of the club are either not aware what’s going on , which I find hard to believe , or they just accept the loyalty of the fans as a given and are not prepared to install changes at any cost.

Too many complaints over the years about it and nothing improves.

Why ?
We are at the point now where they couldn’t give a single fuck about complaints they get, it’s either their way or the highway. You’ve only got to look at this carry on with people in premium areas wanting to move seats back into normal areas due to price and they won’t entertain it, it’s just see you later, back of the waiting list you go. Now they have unlimited amount of people willing to snap up season tickets, the level of service from them will get worse.
 
Probably the biggest problem with the internet and forums like this is that they prevent people taking direct action when they are not happy with a situation.

There is obviously a lot of people who have huge issues with the ticketing procedure who in the past would have had to organise and protest to be heard.

Forums like this allow people to rant and rave about things they are unhappy with and in someways get things off their chest while being totally ineffective in precipitating change.

What are the actual actions we can take as supporters of SAFC to bring about the change we want because whining about it on here just seems like a bit of a waste of time.
 
Oh I don't disagree. Its all buzzwords and PR managed. I also know the club won't give a toss if I encounter any issues. I suppose I just don't take anything they post as genuine or serious, thats probably what I'm getting at.
As long as they keep us up to date as to who’s birthday it is I’m happy :rolleyes:
 
or be sat next to a mate of a mate on the reserve list of a branch experiencing their first game since tommy watson scored at wembley like at oxford sitting next to us.

I know passing on tickets happens, but we have to assume that untill the club have something in place to return tickets then the person who bought the ticket genuinely couldn't go.
And the situation at the moment is that if you can't go as something has happened, then there are two options - either pass it on to someone so that the person sat next to a mate of a mate is at their first game since Wembley (which tbh doesn't sound that bad - I'd have thought Oxford points were quite low - even general but could be wrong). Or do the option that you would do and what the club want , and throw the ticket in the bin and have no one there at all.

I Understand someone not wanting to pass a ticket on as scared of the clubs stance, but I definitely have no issues with someone passing a ticket on if they genuinely can't go , as a Sunderland fan gets to go. At the moment it's logical. What I certainly don't agree with is fans like you thinking that they deserve to be banned and that they reap what they sow. I think that's disgusting
 
they haven't got a complaints procedure. genius move by them

if you don't have a complaints process, then you don't receive any complaints.

they can also simply just ban anyone they don't like, or tell people to fuck off if they ask for help, as theres a 15,000 strong waiting list now
You can always complain through any consumer rights group. Long winded and utterly pointless for the level of money generally involved here.

Few things that are utterly shambolic
No refund policy
No return policy
No complaints procedure
No disclosure of any information relevant or otherwise
The terms on their own website contradict removing points etc.

I’m fully agreeing with you on how woeful they are, but if they want it to be customer experience only they best get their house in order
 
but the passed on ticket went to someone who didn't give a toss, has contributed absolutely bugger all to the club apart from a weekend down london. i don't think they even went to games in the years previous to that. is it right they get a ticket for a 'sold out' game over someone who missed out by a couple of points?
Why wouldn't they give a toss?
They are obviously Sunderland fans..more of a Sunderland fan than having no one there.
They may want to go to all games but can't get tickets. They may be a mate from down south who could go at very short notice when the original ticket buyer went ill that morning
 
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Because the process changed for branches this season, not only did supporters on 70+ points in phase 1 lose their tickets for the mags, some of those most loyal fans had assisted the group in general by purchasing tickets as the phases dropped.

For example up until the end of last season branches submitted a spreadsheet for up to 40 tickets for phase 1 and 40 tickets for phase 2. The club processed those for the branches. Any additional tickets were purchased online in the normal way. The branch applications for phase 2 were processed prior to tickets being released to the rest of the fan base. That imo was very unfair on the fan base as a whole.

This season, what I’ve done is, I always purchased the tickets in phase 1 (where the ticket was guaranteed) and then arranged for other members of the group to purchase tickets in the relevant phase as the ticket isn’t guaranteed.

So for the mags people on 40 points in the group went to the game while fans on 70+ points missed out after helping less loyal fans in the group by purchasing their tickets whilst those on 40 points for example were at work (or generally unable to access the website at 12 noon) at their particular phase time. A number of the group on 40-69 points didn’t even go to the game as they felt so strongly about a more loyal fan having their ticket taken off them.
 
its every single thing they do. people may think it sounds dramatic, but it is.

every away game release is either delayed, doesn't work, restrictions placed in error and always have the phasing set totally wrong, meaning there are 100s of tickets left over after a week of sales, and no notice of further phasing.

the man united home game went on sale on tuesday, with purchase history required, but this information wasn't made public till after the sales period started. why? its basic stuff

the ticket resale hasn't even gone live for spurs yet. the game is 3 days away, and people can't list their unused tickets. why?

I couldn't buy Wolves tickets over the weekend as it said my account was limited to 0 tickets.

By the time they replied to my email, they'd put the rest of tickets on sale to the next phase and sold them all. I got a message yesterday saying they'd fixed the problem but the game was now sold out.
 
What are the actual actions we can take as supporters of SAFC to bring about the change we want because whining about it on here just seems like a bit of a waste of time.

we have supporters groups, like RAWA and ticketing sub-group (what ever they are called) and the fans liason committee, plus supporters associations and multiple fanzines and the likes... All of which are completely powerless.

This forum is the only place people can actually publicly document thier experiences
 
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