The ref (see PGMOL thread)

[Voice of fair play]

I could say exactly the same about both you and him. You both waffle on defending refs constantly when there is very little defence.

This kid has taken Ballard out with no attempt to play the ball. It's not a hard decision. His body shape is all wrong, he doesn't jump towards the flight of the ball. He totally plays the man. Ballard was pulled up for fouling the keeper. Easy decision, not looking at the ball, just making a nuisance of himself. The difference is Ballard leant in a bit with his body, he didn't lead with his arm.

The ref and linesman have either completely missed the incident or decided in their wisdom there is nothing in it. How is 2 bookings in anyway the correct decision? The Boro player has committed at least 2 bookable offenses being kind re: the challenge.

Show me where I defended Dan Neil for getting sent off down Sheffield last season? It was a stupid challenge and he deserved to go.

From the evidence I've seen (not guessing) he was very unlucky to be sent off on Saturday. It was innocuous and there's barely a player ever gets a 2nd yellow for those actions.

Very little defence!!!

I am nothing short of amazed a man of your age and experience who must have watched football for 40 years.

Does not grasp the concept of how difficult it is for a ref in todays modern football with all the cheating and fast paced athletes on show

To make decisions in spilt seconds with one look and one angle.

Genuinely amazed I really am.

I have played and watched football all my life and think just slightly younger than you and it the most obvious thing in the world.

I must have been on the board 15 years and these threads happen upteem teams throughout every season in that time and will continue to happen for god knows how many years

And it’s because human eye alone will always get things wrong how much evidence to people need!!

Little defence !! Unbelievable

 

[Keith S30S]

Very little defence!!!

I am nothing short of amazed a man of your age and experience who must have watched football for 40 years.

Does not grasp the concept of how difficult it is for a ref in todays modern football with all the cheating and fast paced athletes on show.

To make decisions in spilt seconds with one look and one angle.

Genuinely amazed I really am.

I have played and watched football all my life and think just slightly younger than you and it the most obvious thing in the world.

I must have been on the board 15 years and these threads happen upteem teams throughout every season in that time and will continue to happen for god knows how many years

And it’s because human eye alone will always get things wrong how much evidence to people need!!

Little defence !! Unbelievable

Yawn.

 

[legend7]

Could there be any retrospective judgement on coburn assaults both the elbow and the headbutt

The only thing with retrospective punishments (not just this one)
It generally helps one of your competitors when this team plays them rather than getting you anything back.

 

[Missplaced Childhood]

Very little defence!!!

I am nothing short of amazed a man of your age and experience who must have watched football for 40 years.

Does not grasp the concept of how difficult it is for a ref in todays modern football with all the cheating and fast paced athletes on show.

To make decisions in spilt seconds with one look and one angle.

Genuinely amazed I really am.

I have played and watched football all my life and think just slightly younger than you and it the most obvious thing in the world.

I must have been on the board 15 years and these threads happen upteem teams throughout every season in that time and will continue to happen for god knows how many years

And it’s because human eye alone will always get things wrong how much evidence to people need!!

Little defence !! Unbelievable

Some good points there about difficult decisions to make however there was a lot of comments in the summer about new bookable offences 1 of which was shirt pulls being a yellow card, a very easy offence to see and then card, why then did the ref on Saturday completely ignore this directive multiple times (mainly on Clarke) until Roberts did it when the card was out in a millisecond

 

[Voice of fair play]

Yawn.

I thought you would be more knowledgeable of the difficulty having seen this happen season after season year after year

Some good points there about difficult decisions to make however there was a lot of comments in the summer about new bookable offences 1 of which was shirt pulls being a yellow card, a very easy offence to see and then card, why then did the ref on Saturday completely ignore this directive multiple times (mainly on Clarke) until Roberts did it when the card was out in a millisecond

Maybe this particular ref had a bad game on Saturday and missed a couple, perhaps some were on the blind side of him or people in his way, could be any number of reasons

What’s the alternative reason?

That someone from Australia purposely gave Middlesbrough decisions and Sunderland not?

What possible reason would he do that?

 

[Missplaced Childhood]

I thought you would be more knowledgeable of the difficulty having seen this happen season after season year after year

Maybe this particular ref had a bad game on Saturday and missed a couple, perhaps some were on the blind side of him or people in his way, could be any number of reasons

What’s the alternative reason?

That someone from Australia purposely gave Middlesbrough decisions and Sunderland not?

What possible reason would he do that?

I honestly have no answer to it but he completely ignored bookings for at least 4 or 5 pullbacks by Boro players that were given as fouls by him so he did see them while deciding to punish Roberts for one, is it incompetence ? is it cheating ? Who knows but him, my point is highlighting that these were easy decisions for him where he ignored the directives set out for him.

 

[Mackem Al]

I thought you would be more knowledgeable of the difficulty having seen this happen season after season year after year

Maybe this particular ref had a bad game on Saturday and missed a couple, perhaps some were on the blind side of him or people in his way, could be any number of reasons

What’s the alternative reason?

That someone from Australia purposely gave Middlesbrough decisions and Sunderland not?

What possible reason would he do that?

Triantis's dad had a thing with the Refs mother in the bush. Allegedly.

 

[southstander]

The only thing with retrospective punishments (not just this one)
It generally helps one of your competitors when this team plays them rather than getting you anything back.

Change the points outcome from the game?

 

[Keith S30S]

I thought you would be more knowledgeable of the difficulty having seen this happen season after season year after year.

You still excuse refs for getting the absolute easiest of decisions wrong!

Apparently you have played and watched for years like myself so how come I can very easily see the Boro player take out Ballard with zero attempt to challenge for the ball but you can't?

That foul has nothing to do with the pace of the modern game or a 'clever' foul. It is a blatant on the ball, rather than off the ball assault

There are 2 officials in fairly near proximity to the foul who should both be following the flight of the ball but neither see it for what it is? A dreadful foul that could have seriously injured Dan Ballard from either the impact or the fall from height to the ground.

Sorry, it isn't good enough. The standard of referring isn't acceptable if neither of them can see that as a bad foul.

 

[legend7]

Change the points outcome from the game?

I dunno what the answer is really mate, how do you prove it would have changed the result.
It's a tough one

 

[makumstu]

I thought you would be more knowledgeable of the difficulty having seen this happen season after season year after year

Maybe this particular ref had a bad game on Saturday and missed a couple, perhaps some were on the blind side of him or people in his way, could be any number of reasons

What’s the alternative reason?

That someone from Australia purposely gave Middlesbrough decisions and Sunderland not?

What possible reason would he do that?

He didn't miss them though, he saw the infringement and gave the foul but didn't bother implementing the directive that was given at the start of the season.

The worst being playing an advantage, even though Clarke was slowed down so the attack came to nothing, but not going back to caution the offender.

In the first half, Greenwood thought he should have had a corner and spun around shouting and screaming at the ref when a goal kick was given showing much more dissent than Dan Niel had. I thought that the second yellow was actually a card to Trai Hume as he was the one having a proper go at the Assistant and would have been more deserving of it based on what we could see and what we have been told was said by Neil.

The main thing that led to the situation was the number of times Clarke was being fouled, more or less every time he got the ball in the early exchanges, he then started going down too easy either waiting or expecting to be fouled. I didn't think it was a foul on him that time and the ref got it right, nothing needed to be said as Hume had got back and made a great tackle off their player to get us the goal kick.

I've said it before, Referees can influence the pace and tempo of the game and ex-referees have come out following retirement stating that is the case, whether that is just to remain relevant or to boost impending book sales who knows, but enough have come out and said it to make a case that there is an element of conscious / unconscious bias at times in their decision making.

 

[Bear]

Just Google the clowns name seems he loves to get things badly wrong

 

[The Great MES]

Refereeing standards are at an all time low right throughout the leagues. Most of the issues aren't honest mistakes, it's down to the ref deciding he's going to be the star of the show. Stupid niggly contentious decisions costing teams points is happening literally every week now. How people can defend them is beyond me.

 

[wadya]

Very little defence!!!

I am nothing short of amazed a man of your age and experience who must have watched football for 40 years.

Does not grasp the concept of how difficult it is for a ref in todays modern football with all the cheating and fast paced athletes on show

To make decisions in spilt seconds with one look and one angle.

Genuinely amazed I really am.

I have played and watched football all my life and think just slightly younger than you and it the most obvious thing in the world.

I must have been on the board 15 years and these threads happen upteem teams throughout every season in that time and will continue to happen for god knows how many years

And it’s because human eye alone will always get things wrong how much evidence to people need!!

Little defence !! Unbelievable

That is what a linesman is there for.
In case a referee missed anything.
Mind the 3 of them missed quite a lot

 

[Missplaced Childhood]

I honestly feel that he set out from the start not to be influenced by the large home crowd and ended it totally losing his way, it truly is the only answer for his unwillingness to book Boro players for the most obvious of yellow (and in the case of Crooks) red cards for offences he has seen and given fouls for but under the laws of the game are cardable offences.

 

[coluka]

I think that Neil was more than a tad stupid, he must have surely thought he was lucky to only get a yellow for his first tackle, so to give the ref an opportunity like he did was crazy and naive, he’ll learn. Players were warned at the outset of the season not to use abusive language to a ref. Championship refs may let these issue go more than PL refs. Gillard has been fast tracked to the Premier League and will want to make sure he sticks by the letter of the law to impress his bosses, I think Mowbray was over-egging the empathy issue, I mean he can’t be lenient within the rules. According to various websites Greenwood wasn’t carded, so the foul he made in the second half even if carded would have only been a yellow, it was worthy of a card though in the framework of the game. Why do people think he was on a yellow already, had sky got something wrong?

Some fans are quite right that O’Nien was lucky the ref didn’t give the pen for the blatant 2 handed push on Crooks. Jones goal was offside though and should never have stood. Never saw Coburn elbow Ballard, but if he did, surely the cameras would have highlighted and he gets retrospectively punished? The fact is it was an even first half and Boro dominated the second half and ran out deserved winners. Boro probably think its a case of Karma given Fry's harsh sending off last season.

 

[Billy Batts]

Refereeing standards are at an all time low right throughout the leagues. Most of the issues aren't honest mistakes, it's down to the ref deciding he's going to be the star of the show. Stupid niggly contentious decisions costing teams points is happening literally every week now. How people can defend them is beyond me.

This.

 

[Voice of fair play]

You still excuse refs for getting the absolute easiest of decisions wrong!

Apparently you have played and watched for years like myself so how come I can very easily see the Boro player take out Ballard with zero attempt to challenge for the ball but you can't?

That foul has nothing to do with the pace of the modern game or a 'clever' foul. It is a blatant on the ball, rather than off the ball assault

There are 2 officials in fairly near proximity to the foul who should both be following the flight of the ball but neither see it for what it is? A dreadful foul that could have seriously injured Dan Ballard from either the impact or the fall from height to the ground.

Sorry, it isn't good enough. The standard of referring isn't acceptable if neither of them can see that as a bad foul.

While you may have a point with instances such as the one describing as mistakes will be made.

Your last sentence is still incredibly naive as a general point, mistakes have always been made and always will not sure how many years of evidence you need that just the human eye will never live up to the expectations you wanting.

 

[Billy Batts]

It's like having Dermot Gallagher and Mike Dean on here ffs.

 

[Voice of fair play]

Refereeing standards are at an all time low right throughout the leagues. Most of the issues aren't honest mistakes, it's down to the ref deciding he's going to be the star of the show. Stupid niggly contentious decisions costing teams points is happening literally every week now. How people can defend them is beyond me.

That is just complete nonsense this ridiculous the ‘ ref wants to be the star of the show’ without knowing that person and not even hearing them utter one word is ignorant in the extreme.