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VARguments

AC Mack said:
No, absolutely not. He has a decision to make - onside or offside. I don't know where this narrative has crept in about being sure or certain.
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They do hold back on close offsides now in my opinion. I'd say that the proof of this is the amount of goals that VAR rules out for offside when the linesman hasn't flagged offside compared to the ones when he flags off but it is actually onside.

The Liverpool goal at the weekend is one of the rare occasions when linesman flags offside but it's actually onside. Yet usually every week you see VAR being the 'bad guy' and disallowing a goal for offside after the fans have gone daft.

Another thing to note is that if the linesman raises a flag incorrectly straight after a goal, it also kills the euphoria of the goal celebrations which players/fans won't get back when VAR corrects it. This also takes away the vitriol towards the linesman for disallowing a legitimate goal and killing the celebrations as more of it is directed at VAR these days.

I just had a go at this test in the link below and got the 5 Sunday League ones correct. Though you will see by the freeze frames that is isn't as close at what you think in real time without the benefit of multi angles showing a still image like when watching on TV. The overall scores are 81%, 89%, 95%, 96%, 83% and I was better than 34% of people. The 1st and last are probably the hardest but bear in mind this is Sunday league level so the next 2 levels would be harder. It's a shame you have to be registered to do the other ones as I bet they're hard.

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bernardbresslaw said:
If there was no VAR it wouldn't have happened.
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The goal wouldn't have happened either as the linesman flagged it offside. In fact, in the old days he would have flagged before Diaz scored and the ref would have blown to stop the game stopping Diaz during his run.
 

cluffy said:
Be as easy if the var says “offside” or “not offside”
And sticks it on the scoreboard
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I supposed the scoreboard operator only follows the onfield ref’s final action. Otherwise another can of worms if there’s a different interpretation of whatever the VAR says
 
AC Mack said:
No, the linesman should give what he thinks. You don't not put your flag up because you know VAR is there to fall back on. This is why they now delay their decision if they think it's off.
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VAR checks every goal regardless doesnt it? So whether he flags or not is irrelevant to the final outcome, the VAR officials are rightly getting hammered for his, but the onfield linesman has also made a shocking decision
 
scott934 said:
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Like many, I don’t think VAR is right for football, after all this time I still don’t think it’s right for football.
VAR controversy has been the highlight of most matches you watch.
At the least the referees interpretation live is what it looked like to him at the time. One persons view.
We can’t all agree on VARs interpretation of incidents or when they should get involved.
It’s a joke.
Yet to this day I have happily watched Sunderland every week without VAR being involved and been happy to live with the you won some you lose some mentality.
It’s not an exact science football. It’s not just about running the fastest, jumping the highest etc. Many actions happen at once and if the person appointed does not think a team has benefited from an unfair advantage, then we should just respect it.
Makes it a better game for the fans, and that’s all that matters.
If they want to reduce the number of mistakes a referee might make give him more linesmen.... but even then before VAR how often did he rely on them to make decisions
 
I just think of all the crap decisions we’ve had when playing Liverpool like the penalty 10 foot outside the box and the roll back to the goal keeper to take a free kick. Feck em.
Also if the decision was against Burnley or someone the media wouldn’t be going mental about it. It was a shit error but we see decisions like this every week in the other leagues.
 
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It blows my mind that the initial VAR communication isn't the onfield referee/linesman saying something along the lines of, "possible offside on Diaz, onfield decision is goal disallowed for offside". Then everyone is clear.

In Rugby you can hear the referee say, "onfield decision is try/no try". In cricket you have the on field soft signal of out / not out.

Yet here we are with no communication at all from the on field officials to VAR and hoping they've noticed the flag (they should have but that's not the point). The whole thing is a mess. Most major leagues now have the automated offside system in place, for some reason we opted against it. Can't see how we can continue without it after this
 
Mind blowingingly inept, but we shouldn’t be surprised.

I was thinking about recompense for Liverpool, and potentially other clubs as badly wronged in the future.

You can’t replay the game for sure and an apology is completely worthless.

The Premier League have the ability to dock points if a club breaks the rules so why not AWARD and compensation point in circumstances as extreme as this when an appalling decision has almost certainly cost a club. I’m not suggesting 3 points, but that cock up should be ‘made right’ in some way.
 
AC Mack said:
So if he's 90% thinking it's offside he gives onside just in case his 10% is correct?
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Fair point, but I thought (might be wrong) they were meant to keep their flag down if they were unsure

But my point was more that he was clearly onside, so if the linesman thought he was 90% offside then therein lies part of the problem?
 
AC Mack said:
So if he's 90% thinking it's offside he gives onside just in case his 10% is correct?
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Mind, in this instance, I don't think it was a tight call. Was clearly on even in real time . But linesman has a decision to make like you say.

Referees in the VAR room are clearly to blame but any linesman on the pitch shouldn't even consider giving it offside in the first place
 
lower league officiating - in last nights Northhampton Vs Reading game one of the players received a 2nd yellow in injury time and so was sent off, the ref then got the player back out having mistakenly decided that he made an error and it was his first yellow, so he cancelled the red and allowed him to finish the game :lol:
 
"Check complete" as a communication with layers of meaning was always asking for trouble, I can't see why they don't just report their finding, that is exactly what the referee needs - VAR-onside VAR-Offside VAR-handball VAR-no handball VAR-foul VAR-no foul VAR-violent conduct VAR-no violent conduct etc. The referee obviously knows the initial decision and whether that information is a confirmation or reversal.
 
Turnip from the Tip said:
Mind blowingingly inept, but we shouldn’t be surprised.

I was thinking about recompense for Liverpool, and potentially other clubs as badly wronged in the future.

You can’t replay the game for sure and an apology is completely worthless.

The Premier League have the ability to dock points if a club breaks the rules so why not AWARD and compensation point in circumstances as extreme as this when an appalling decision has almost certainly cost a club. I’m not suggesting 3 points, but that cock up should be ‘made right’ in some way.
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Litigation fest down that road. Just bin the whole thing. Liverpool and Man U were always winners under the just a ref and.a couple of linos system anyway. We're used to it.
 
Father Jack Hackett said:
The fact he replies to being happy with it as “offside, goal yeah” shows he wasn’t paying attention to the question at all.
It’s like a bloke answering a question from his missus when he’s watching a match and pissing about on his phone at the same time “yeah, no, if you want, whatever”
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Just seemed to be a lot of shouting and talking over each other with no one taking control.

Shambles .
 
Nathan Gunn said:
It blows my mind that the initial VAR communication isn't the onfield referee/linesman saying something along the lines of, "possible offside on Diaz, onfield decision is goal disallowed for offside". Then everyone is clear.

In Rugby you can hear the referee say, "onfield decision is try/no try". In cricket you have the on field soft signal of out / not out.

Yet here we are with no communication at all from the on field officials to VAR and hoping they've noticed the flag (they should have but that's not the point). The whole thing is a mess. Most major leagues now have the automated offside system in place, for some reason we opted against it. Can't see how we can continue without it after this
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Well articulated and clear. I completely agree that football should follow the lead of Rugby Union and have real time conversations miked up to ensure no skullduggery and time to make a rational decision, aided by competent VAR officials and replay facilities, once play is stopped. I’m afraid in football, at present, officials do not apply the rules equally the differences between different referees and assistants can be massive. This lack of consistency and training spills over to VAR where no one knows who has the final say to make a decision.
 
Chewit said:
Like many, I don’t think VAR is right for football, after all this time I still don’t think it’s right for football.
VAR controversy has been the highlight of most matches you watch.
At the least the referees interpretation live is what it looked like to him at the time. One persons view.
We can’t all agree on VARs interpretation of incidents or when they should get involved.
It’s a joke.
Yet to this day I have happily watched Sunderland every week without VAR being involved and been happy to live with the you won some you lose some mentality.
It’s not an exact science football. It’s not just about running the fastest, jumping the highest etc. Many actions happen at once and if the person appointed does not think a team has benefited from an unfair advantage, then we should just respect it.
Makes it a better game for the fans, and that’s all that matters.
If they want to reduce the number of mistakes a referee might make give him more linesmen.... but even then before VAR how often did he rely on them to make decisions
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Totally agree. In my humble opinion it has in fact spoiled the game you want to watch on TV. However i think the fault lies completely with broadcasters and these so called ‘Pundits’ who have for years dissected every decision by the ref from every angle and criticised. They called for technology and now criticise that. Wish we could ho back where the refs decision on the pitch was final and we just got on with it. Having to listen to Caragher and Gallaghan just boils my wee!!
 
We have the technology, so we should use it. But it should be used sensibly to prevent clear and obvious errors, if a player is 5 yards off side that is an obvious error, if there is only fractions of an inch in it then its not. But then you can never legislate for idiocy , the clowns involved in that farce should never be allowed anywhere near a football ground again. FFS they screwed up, and knew they had screwed up big time, and are now trying to blame the protocol w@nkers.
 
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