Jack Leach

[The Hesford Diet]

Our best spinner currently, but bearing in mind the circumstances, we need batsmen. I think the selectors have done the right thing in picking Ali ahead of Leach.

He's been on the wrong end of poor selection, with Bess getting the nod over him when it's clear that Leach was a better option.

That said, the fact he is feted far more than his 90-odd against Ireland and 1* at Headingley always leaves that area of doubt that, when given the chance to shine with the ball, he hasn't.

I don't think there's any right or wrong opinion here. I'd like to see him give an extended run in the test side but can also see why others don't think he's a particularly great loss to the team.

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

The Swann Leach comparisons aren’t good ones. Leach has only played in England, Sri Lanka, India and a few overs in NZ

Swann played everywhere, and his stats are distorted by Oz, where he bowled more overs than anyway than England and averaged north of 50

 

[Voice of fair play]

Swann of course had the advantage of being a good number 8 bat and decent slip fielder ensuring he could be picked with confidence ensuring the batting remained strong. Consistency of selection helped him develop into the great bowler he was.

That is of course a fair point.

But even if your base opinions of purely bowling talent alone.

Imo Swann a lot more talented bowler than Leach

 

[I am Boss]

Suppose we'll find out later today whether Ali over Leach was justified.

Suppose we'll find out later today whether Ali over Leach was justified.

Meen

 

[Hetty]

Bump

 

[smoker]

Ali was shite in Australia too, as was Swann in 13/14.

Drop in wickets have made bowling spin in Australia even harder and many Aussie state sides don't pick a specialist spinner.

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

Got to feel for the lad. No cricket throughout the summer when he should have been picked then chucked the ball on day two at the Gabba with the batsmen having failed miserable the day before.

It’s fairly shoddy individual management

 

[Voice of fair play]

Got to feel for the lad. No cricket throughout the summer when he should have been picked then chucked the ball on day two at the Gabba with the batsmen having failed miserable the day before.

It’s fairly shoddy individual management

Although I see your point a bit, 95 of 11 overs in a test match!!! means the player has to take responsibility, that is not just bad figures they absolutely horrendous.

Personally don’t think he was good enough player to be in the side in the summer and now!

Ali was shite in Australia too, as was Swann in 13/14.

Drop in wickets have made bowling spin in Australia even harder and many Aussie state sides don't pick a specialist spinner.

I have not the figures at hand but doubt they went for 9 an over in a test match!

 

[Sea to Shining Sea]

Although I see your point a bit, 95 of 11 overs in a test match!!! means the player has to take responsibility, that is not just bad figures they absolutely horrendous.

Personally don’t think he was good enough player to be in the side in the summer and now!

I have not the figures at hand but doubt they went for 9 an over in a test match!

No. But odds stacked against him. Day two Gabba, sun out, lack of cricket, lack of runs to play with, right handed heavy top order.

No. But odds stacked against him. Day two Gabba, sun out, lack of cricket, lack of runs to play with, right handed heavy top order.

edit: left handed!

 

[Twisted]

Got to feel for the lad. No cricket throughout the summer when he should have been picked then chucked the ball on day two at the Gabba with the batsmen having failed miserable the day before.

It’s fairly shoddy individual management

It's an absolute farce. dropped when he was on top of the world, replaced in the england side by the lad he was keeping out of their county side. after absolutely no confidence shown in him by the england set up he's dropped in for a damp green top ashes test.

one of many very bad decisions made before we've even got half way through the first test match.

 

[Captain Slackbladder]

Been hung out to dry....

 

[chunkyshanhawk53]

The simple point is that he has been treated like shit. Is he good enough? God knows, but he’s our best option.

This was a hospital pass

 

[Jack Torrance]

Leach isn’t the issue, in fact the bowling is fine. The batting is the massive issue, the top 3 can’t bat

 

[NorthCountryBoy]

I still think he’s a very good bowler and, 2005-2013 (Swann and Panesar) apart, up with whatever else we’ve had during my life time.

 

[mackembhoy]

I still think he’s a very good bowler and, 2005-2013 (Swann and Panesar) apart, up with whatever else we’ve had during my life time.

He's been completely messed around. Also unlucky with his illness. Had he been consistently played then he doesn't have that performance the other day in my opinion.

Him being in and out of the side really hasn't helped him develop. He's spent 2 years barely playing cricket. Gets far more stick than our batsman who have failed time and time again in that period.

Spinners at test level that aren't Asian generally need time and age on their side to have an impact. He hasn't been awarded any real time. Due to being in and out.

Swann made his test debut when he 29 and became our best or second best. Depending on your age. Leach still can have his best years ahead of him.

Albeit not saying Leach is Ben Stokes. But I look back to 2014 and see how fans and media treated Ben. When they attacked him for multiple ducks as he batted 8/9 and Chris Jordan and Chris Woakes were better picks in their completely wrong eyes. This place was the only Ben Stokes fans at that time.

Completely unfair when the player wasn't being utilised in the right way and I see the same with leach. Moeen got the same unfair press.

Were f***ing harsh to any spinner cos they aren't Graeme Swann. When the reason we've not been number 1 since 2012 has largely been our batsman.

 

[Voice of fair play]

It is a bit like our opening batsman situation, best of a bad bunch.

Leach is not a good enough test spinner imo, I think the England set up know that too.

However lack of options has meant him selected, me personally I would bowl Root more, and play another one of our quality seam bowlers.

 

[rentaghost]

It is a bit like our opening batsman situation, best of a bad bunch.

Leach is not a good enough test spinner imo, I think the England set up know that too.

However lack of options has meant him selected, me personally I would bowl Root more, and play another one of our quality seam bowlers.

In Australia I definitely agree as the likes of Ali and Swann received the same treatment as Leach. Our big strength is our seamers.

 

[Voice of fair play]

In Australia I definitely agree as the likes of Ali and Swann received the same treatment as Leach. Our big strength is our seamers.

I just think we can’t justify anymore leaving one of our quality seam attack for Leach, when with respect all he will do is give the seamers a break or try to tie up a end, where Root could do that ,hence giving us another better bowler in the side.

 

[rentaghost]

I just think we can’t justify anymore leaving one of our quality seam attack for Leach, when with respect all he will do is give the seamers a break or try to tie up a end, where Root could do that ,hence giving us another better bowler in the side.

I tend to agree. The problem with bowling Leach (and Ali and Swann etc) before him tends to be in the first innings on flat Australia pitches. They just take calculated risks and try and smash you and then make the captain overbowl the seamers. Playing without your best spinner might come and bite you if we get into a position where we need to bowl them out on day 5 but it will probably be playing the extra seamer that got us into that position in the first place. Root also underestimates his own bowling - hes more than capable.

 

[Voice of fair play]

I tend to agree. The problem with bowling Leach (and Ali and Swann etc) before him tends to be in the first innings on flat Australia pitches. They just take calculated risks and try and smash you and then make the captain overbowl the seamers. Playing without your best spinner might come and bite you if we get into a position where we need to bowl them out on day 5 but it will probably be playing the extra seamer that got us into that position in the first place. Root also underestimates his own bowling - hes more than capable.

I think Root is the key point in this debate, if we did not have him would be a bit different but like you say he is more than capable.

It’s all relative to me, in a ideal world everybody on this board would want your first choice specialist spinner into the side.

But you have to work out how good that first choice spinner is and what he gives to your side in the overall picture.