Suez Canal blocked

Kevj said:
In relation to the claims discussion: Does the operator of the canal guarantee passage? I presume you need to book in advance, however, I also presume they’re not daft and have clauses within the terms so they aren’t liable for additional cost or time delay if the canal isn’t operational. Any vessel who have elected to go around the horn have done so to mitigate their arrival date delay. There will be cargo in these vessels which will be subject to LDs so the knock on claims could be massive, but I can’t see that the canal operators would leave themselves wide open, certainly not in a captive market.
Vessels which have been caught up mid navigation is a slightly different story.
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if the m1 is shut because of an accident can tesco or the like lodge a claim against the highways agency or whoever has had the accident causing it to be blocked? or even for extra fuel used during a detour?
not arguing or anything mind. i wouldn't have thought the suez canal operators can guarantee clear passage. surely the only claims would be for the owners of the cargo on the ship being late for delivery but even then i've known loads of ships be delayed due to bad weather.
anyway, back to the match.
 


humbug said:
if the m1 is shut because of an accident can tesco or the like lodge a claim against the highways agency or whoever has had the accident causing it to be blocked? or even for extra fuel used during a detour?
not arguing or anything mind. i wouldn't have thought the suez canal operators can guarantee clear passage. surely the only claims would be for the owners of the cargo on the ship being late for delivery but even then i've known loads of ships be delayed due to bad weather.
anyway, back to the match.
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This is my point, however, the analogy is use of the Tyne Tunnel and you’ve had to book in advance. You have in effect, secured a passage through.
Bad weather is Force Majeure and that may go out of the window if it’s proven the crew or pilot were at fault.
That said, strong winds may be the eventual culprit.
 
Kevj said:
This is my point, however, the analogy is use of the Tyne Tunnel and you’ve had to book in advance. You have in effect, secured a passage through.
Bad weather is Force Majeure and that may go out of the window if it’s proven the crew or pilot were at fault.
That said, strong winds may be the eventual culprit.
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If the pilot was at fault then there'll be claims galore.
 
monkeytassle said:
If the pilot was at fault then there'll be claims galore.
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It makes it easier to claim as the ship operators are in contract with the canal operator. But if the contract excludes disruption, delay or coverage of additional costs, then there will still be claims, I just don’t believe they’ll be valid. As said, I’ve not read the contract to know, but based on their annual turnover, you’d expect the contract to be water tight (pardon the pun).
 
Butcher's Coat said:
This.
To the best of my knowledge, the ship would take on board Suez Canal Pilots.
They would be in charge through it's journey.
If there was any fault, then to me it would certainly focus on the pilot.
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this would be my thought process too, it’s a money earner for the owning organisation and theoretically they would see issues before they arise, however, if they balls up....
 
Butcher's Coat said:
This.
To the best of my knowledge, the ship would take on board Suez Canal Pilots.
They would be in charge through it's journey.
If there was any fault, then to me it would certainly focus on the pilot.
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The ship's Master in full command of his vessel irrespective if there is a Pilot onboard or not, every ships log book will state "Course various to Master Orders and Pilots Advise"
If a pilot cocks up then he'll get in knee in the nuts, but the responsibility will always remain at the Master's door.
Only exception is the Panama Canal when approaching or departing the locks.
 
Willincity said:
The ship's Master in full command of his vessel irrespective if there is a Pilot onboard or not, every ships log book will state "Course various to Master Orders and Pilots Advise"
If a pilot cocks up then he'll get in knee in the nuts, but the responsibility will always remain at the Master's door.
Only exception is the Panama Canal when approaching or departing the locks.
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It certainly won't be the Egyptians fault !
I've gone back and looked up the quote for pilotage in Canada that I priced and that was $30,000 and wasn't a big ship
 
Sandboy said:
It certainly won't be the Egyptians fault !
I've gone back and looked up the quote for pilotage in Canada that I priced and that was $30,000 and wasn't a big ship
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Irrespective if its a Sand Dancers fault of not, the Old Man has ultimate responsibility.
Pilot fees are only a small percentage of the that figure in $ you mention.
Very likely port dues are in that number which would include, pilot launch running costs, launch crews salaries, admin ...... there is no end of stuff that could be in that figure.
What Canadian port was it out of curiosity? East or West coast as in the Lawrence river or the Vancouver area
 
Willincity said:
The ship's Master in full command of his vessel irrespective if there is a Pilot onboard or not, every ships log book will state "Course various to Master Orders and Pilots Advise"
If a pilot cocks up then he'll get in knee in the nuts, but the responsibility will always remain at the Master's door.
Only exception is the Panama Canal when approaching or departing the locks.
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Thank you.
 
They have managed to budge its stern and get its rudder and propeller to work again.

Some 9,000 tonnes of ballast water were removed from the ship to help make it lighter - but the Japanese-owned Ever Given remains stuck.
 
Willincity said:
Irrespective if its a Sand Dancers fault of not, the Old Man has ultimate responsibility.
Pilot fees are only a small percentage of the that figure in $ you mention.
Very likely port dues are in that number which would include, pilot launch running costs, launch crews salaries, admin ...... there is no end of stuff that could be in that figure.
What Canadian port was it out of curiosity? East or West coast as in the Lawrence river or the Vancouver area
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That might be the case but in that part of the world some pilots can be absolute wankers and put pressure on the Captain.
The subsequent investigation will be interesting.......more likely somethings gone seriously tits up down below with the steering or ME failure.
 

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