Takeover News/Rumours

[10 Gary Rowells]

Agree with you on this, think there are still some big issues to be cleared up.
1/ What happens to the £20.5m our present owners owe back into the club.
2/ Are FPP still to be involved, if not what happens with there €12m loan to the club.
3/ what is new guy paying for his reported 60% shareholding.
All very important to know imo.

That is all true. However, the 2 key things we want to know from an owner is 1. Are we financially secure and 2. Does he/she have a vision to take us forward. With Donald it has always appeared that he does not have the finances to take us forward. Then Donald's vision fell at the first hurdle - we are now in a position where the manager and his style of football epitomises the whole club - uninspiring, defensive and with no long term vision. If the new lad comes in and brings a Sporting Director who has the experience and stature to turn the club round and offers us a pathway back to the Premier League then if we don't ever find out the answers to your 3 questions I don't think any of us will care too much.

 

[Mickdundee]

I don't think he was a shareholder at all.
Good point, but then Quinn was a billionaire (or close to it), most reports seem to be more that Donald & Methven will have 20% so it's possible Sartori has picked up a few more as well, who knows.

Reports are that Sartori’s stake is staying the same. It wouldn’t surprise me if Sartori is the one that has taken the sacrifice to allow the Chuckle Brothers to keep their shares.

If the rumours are true that they won’t sell without keeping their stake and Sartori already being a shareholder he’s better off as a minority shareholder under someone with the means to drive the club forwards than he is as a minority shareholder under someone who has found themselves out of their depth.

 

[KittenMittens]

Agree with you on this, think there are still some big issues to be cleared up.
1/ What happens to the £20.5m our present owners owe back into the club.
2/ Are FPP still to be involved, if not what happens with there €12m loan to the club.
3/ what is new guy paying for his reported 60% shareholding.
All very important to know imo.

1 - they don't legally owe anything, but I'm personally hopeful that it has been resolved as part of this deal. And by 'resolved' I mean 'paid in full'.

2 - FPP have a loan to Madrox. They don't have any shares and as fsr as we're aware, won't be buying any. In real terms, this means they can either keep the loan and pay it back in future, or they can pay it back now. I would suggest that it's fairly likely the new owners don't want to ask FPP for permission to do things, nor will they really want to report to anyone but themselves. I'd err on the side of them paying it back, unless the terms of the loan are very good.

3 - Great question, as is how much he is personally taking, what this consortium looks like etc. We're understandably light on detail, but from what's been said, the absolute worst case scenario with the reported deal would be that Dreyfus takes an inconsequential amount of shares. That's still a net gain on where we are today, and there's a possibility that he alone will take a majority, which would be even better.

I'm of the opinion that the FPP ship has sailed and did so a while ago, but honestly, I don't think it matters if this kid is backing us. That alone is a brilliant outcome considering the last 12 months.

 

[Mackem Tommy]

Aren't there supposed to be 2 other new people too, coming in alongside Louis-Dreyfus?

I'd heard it on here I think, or not606. (not personally)

I thought you'd said it

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

I think the point is that regardless of share make up Sartori is Donald and Methven's man and Kryil is Sartori's. People are acting as if Sartori and Louis-Dreyfus are an opposing party whereas its actually all the same cabal, but with a new investor. Whether or not the new fella is a passive investor who is willing to trust Sartori et al with his money or someone who's going to clear the decks and be his own man remains to be seen but theres absolutely no evidence to suggest either way. The only thing we have to go off is that Sartori was brought in by Donald and Sartori brought in Louis-Dreyfus so you can surely understand the concern.

Yes, that is true. Equally to date Sartori has effectivelly been a sleeping partner more interested in his political career than driving the club forward. Another scenario is that Sartori has realised that the club is going nowhere and he now wants to effect positive change. Donald's background is Eastleigh, Sartori's background (through marriage) is Monaco and Kyril's background is Marseilles - I may be the eternal optimist but Sartori and Kyril holding the majority shares suggests bigger aspirations than Donald owning the club. Donald holding 15% of the shares can only influence the club if Kyril wants to listen. It may all go wrong but the future looks potentially far brighter than it did a week ago - except on the pitch where we still live in Parkyworld.

 

[Ghandi Floss]

Irrespective of Short covering the debt that he put the club into by his gross mis-management - which we can say was the noble thing to do, he turned his back on the club when we needed his money and leadership most. When the excitement and gravy train had disappeared down the tunnel and into the championship, he shut up shop and locked the safe. The shutters come down and if not all his fault we are where we are I would say its 99% his fault. Everybody is seen for who they are when the chips are down, well he showed his true colours and love for the culub and supporters when the money train stopped. Its unforgivable how he treat us and if he was to show his face any where near the club again he should be hounded back up to Ponteland Airport and back on his private jet

Exactly. His ownership and decision making of our club was woeful.
And he is the main reason we’re in our current predicament in the first place.

 

[Billy Batts]

After reading through this thread and some others regarding this it surprises me that some folk seem to be having trouble with this concept. Although Laurel and hardy still have shares in the club they are now in a minority and on the face of it will have no further say in how the club is run. Unless something has been written into the deal and I honestly don’t believe donut and tuna trunks are smart enough to outthink a family that have been very successful for almost as long as SAFC have been in existence.

Thickos mate.

 

[6inarow]

Aren't there supposed to be 2 other new people too, coming in alongside Louis-Dreyfus?

I'd heard it on here I think, or not606. (not personally)

I asked the lads over the road yesterday and Magnus confirmed he has always been told there is 3 new people

 

[Red and white TID]

1/ They don't owe anything it was written off. They claimed they would put it back in on sale but no idea how them retaining a percentage impacts that.
2/ FPP didn't loan anything to the club they loaned it to Madrox up to them to sort it out.
3/ No idea and don't really care.

1/ So yes we have a right as fans to know what happens to the £20.5m that was written off if this goes through, it isn’t there money to write off.

2/ FPP loan is with Madrox but secured on lots of Safc property as I read at the time, so is very important to know what happens to this.

3/ You might not care what Donald would get for his shares, but personally I don’t trust SD with anything to do with our club. Especially when it’s to do with money and don’t believe he deserves a profit from any type of sale, after the shitshow he’s overseen.

 

[The Beautiful Game]

I asked the lads over the road yesterday and Magnus confirmed he has always been told there is 3 new people

Magnus who said it was rybolovlev and fuhrman taking over with Donald and methven leaving altogether. Of all the “itk”s he’s the only one I’m certain knows nowt.

 

[Redby-lad]

He spent less in one summer than the full total of our pl tv rights plus projected parachute payments for four years? Aye well done Keano

Which laid the foundations for a decade in the Premier league and some 900m of tv revenue. Aye...well done Keano!

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Was discussing whether new money (SD won’t/can’t fund more than he is now) would make a difference. Does anyone know if new money could do the following without breaking salary cap/FFP.
1: pay up the contracts of Grigg, Graham, O’Brien, Dobson, both goalies and replace.
2: pay up PPs contract and replace.
3: recruit much higher quality U23 players who are not affecting the salary cap.
4: employ a high quality data analytics recruitment team.
5: promise Hume, Onien, Embleton big pay hikes on a new Championship contract.

1. Only if the replacements cost no more than £1.7k/week in wages
2. Yes
3. Under 21, not under 23
4. Yes
5. Yes, but not on a League 1 contract.

 

[Mickdundee]

Yes, that is true. Equally to date Sartori has effectivelly been a sleeping partner more interested in his political career than driving the club forward. Another scenario is that Sartori has realised that the club is going nowhere and he now wants to effect positive change. Donald's background is Eastleigh, Sartori's background (through marriage) is Monaco and Kyril's background is Marseilles - I may be the eternal optimist but Sartori and Kyril holding the majority shares suggests bigger aspirations than Donald owning the club. Donald holding 15% of the shares can only influence the club if Kyril wants to listen. It may all go wrong but the future looks potentially far brighter than it did a week ago - except on the pitch where we still live in Parkyworld.

I think I agree with the bit in bold, in theory anyway.

I suspect that Sartori wanted far more involvement than he’s been allowed. When he first came in he was making noises about linking up with Uruguayan clubs etc, and suddenly the team behind this takeover are also after a Uruguayan club.

I reckon Donald either hasn’t listened or hasn’t been willing/able to finance enough of it and Sartori has just thought “bugger this” and left them to it. He’s then realised we will be stuck in this tinpot league forever more and his investment is shrinking in value so he’s decided to convince one of his rich friends to come in with him and finance a long term project.

 

[ROKER PARK]

Can we not wait until the consortium are revealed and make their plans known, before we continue to circumvent events that may or may not happen (assuming a takeover gains EFL approval). We know very little with regards who the consortium members are, what roles they will play or what their intentions are. Hopefully in the near future all will be revealed. Let's hope it's worth the wait.

 

[sksk3021]

1/ So yes we have a right as fans to know what happens to the £20.5m that was written off if this goes through, it isn’t there money to write off.

2/ FPP loan is with Madrox but secured on lots of Safc property as I read at the time, so is very important to know what happens to this.

3/ You might not care what Donald would get for his shares, but personally I don’t trust SD with anything to do with our club. Especially when it’s to do with money and don’t believe he deserves a profit from any type of sale, after the shitshow he’s overseen.

1/ I don't disagree I would like to know what's happened to it, but ultimately it's been written off so we have no right to it.
2/ It will largely depend on how the takeover is done, if the new owners buy into Madrox or set up a separate company
3/ He doesn't deserve a profit but whether he gets one or not makes very little difference. I am more concerned with how involved they are likely to be going forward given they are retainling a shareholding.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Agree with you on this, think there are still some big issues to be cleared up.
1/ What happens to the £20.5m our present owners owe back into the club.
2/ Are FPP still to be involved, if not what happens with there €12m loan to the club.
3/ what is new guy paying for his reported 60% shareholding.
All very important to know imo.

1. £9m is already back in the club via the FPP loan. Any residual amounts are down to any new board of Madrox
2, The loan will sit there until repaid. Clearly repayment is very possible
3. Who knows, and why does it matter? It's a private transaction between him and Donald. Donald has outstanding loans to Madrox of around £12m (plus anything put in since July 2019); that suggests around £10m for the part he's selling off.

 

[Gobuchul]

it isn’t there money to write off.

It is 100%.

"Their" not "there".

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

1/ I don't disagree I would like to know what's happened to it, but ultimately it's been written off so we have no right to it.
2/ It will largely depend on how the takeover is done, if the new owners buy into Madrox or set up a separate company
3/ He doesn't deserve a profit but whether he gets one or not makes very little difference. I am more concerned with how involved they are likely to be going forward given they are retainling a shareholding.

It will be Madrox shares changing hands, because that's where the existing share split it (Madrox owns 100% of Sunderland). There will doubtless be a new investment company for the new shareholder(s). What will be interesting will be to see if JS transfers his shares into the new vehicle, which could give a consortium owned vehicle a single 80% block.

 

[Redby-lad]

He spent about double that if not more which was a massive spend back then.

Wikipedia shows his transfer spend as £10.9m. It shows he recouped £8.275m in sales.

 

[Splurty]

1. Only if the replacements cost no more than £1.7k/week in wages
2. Yes
3. Under 21, not under 23
4. Yes
5. Yes, but not on a League 1 contract.

Is there anything to block an owner putting money into the club for transfer fees and Sunderland hoovering up a load of exciting u21 players? There's no FFP in League One, so not sure if we can just over spend? (not like we would)