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Takeover News/Rumours

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KittenMittens said:
Yeah it's a solid £150m commitment before you see any money back, let alone make a profit. Even getting us onto our feet in the Championship and avoiding relegation is likely a £75m+ investment from this point (including the purchase price)

That's why I worry about someone coming in now who isn't comfortable with that amount. Someone who thinks we only need a £20m bump is going to get us into the Championship, but every year will be a struggle in that division if there's no more investment forthcoming and we have to be self sufficient at that level.
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If only we had a good youth system bring players up in to the first team.
 

Northumberland Rocks said:
Ok if we cant plan like Sheff Utd lets plan like Bournemouth or Burnley...and other clubs have got from where we are to establish themselves in the premiership without spending silly money. Surely some savy rich business people, given our history, superb infrastructure and large fan base will think we are worth a little gamble.

Good management is the key but of course good financial backing will make it easier.
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The issue is that our cost base makes it so difficult. It’s much higher than those other clubs.

The stadium means higher attendances than others but only if we fill it. Our average season ticket price is one of the lowest in the country and our policing and maintenance costs and are higher than most so it’s not as big a benefit as people assume.

The academy costs 7 figures and only sustains itself if were using the graduates to populate the squad and sell but it’s been absolutely gutted.

I’m not disagreeing that it’s possible it’s just that anyone looking at the finances in black and white would be very concerned that even with all the best intentions, management and planning in the world you’d have to recognise that you're effectively gambling and if it doesn’t come off you’re on the hook for millions. We all hear the successful examples but everyone else is trying to emulate them and failing.
 
Northumberland Rocks said:
With good management you dont necessaily need that type of money to get to the premiership...plenty have done it Sheffield Utd as a recent example.

Of course major financial backing would be great but good savy management is the key.
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I want it to be true, but the reality is that Sheffield United and Huddersfield are massive anomalies and most clubs spend more than them just getting into mid-table. If you're our buyer, you can't build a realistic predictive model using them.

If you look at the average spends of clubs to get there, it costs an awful lot more, assuming we all understand that you can't build a squad from scratch in a year and that all of these clubs added to a base.

Spend in 3 seasons prior to promotion:

Aston Villa £96.5m
Wolves £62m
Newcastle (1 season) £58m
Fulham £49m
Norwich £41m
Leeds £36m
West Brom (2 seasons) £34m
Fulham (1 season) £33m
Brighton £23.5m
Cardiff £12m
Sheff Utd £11.7m
Huddersfield £4.9m

So the average spend on transfer fees alone to get out of the Championship is around £39m - and that's just transfer fees. Most of those clubs have bought big name players and have huge wage bills too. It also discounts that Sheff Utd spent £65m their first year up, Huddersfield £50m, which often needs financing before PL TV money comes in at the end of the following season. Even if it can be recouped later, the TV money instead often finances the next year, rather than going into an owner's pocket, until the club is profitable across a sustained period and starts generating big commercial revenue.

What is also particularly eye-opening is how much other clubs spend without getting out. Forest, Derby, Brentford, Boro, Bristol City and co have spent £50m+ trying to get promotion over the last few years and some are in financial difficulties as a result.

So I completely agree we need savvy management, we need to not overspend and get the right people, but the reality is that the cost of getting promoted is most likely going to be heavily dependent on decisively spending at least

£37.1m on the club
£5m in our division
£40m in the Championship + big escalations in wage costs (£15m+)
£50m+ to survive in the PL.

So you can see why this is almost certainly a £150m commitment for someone who intends to get us promoted to the Premier League.
 
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Pretty interesting line in this. Sartori left an important debate in Uruguay to discuss "Sunderland things". Bit out of character for someone who has been so hands-off with us.
 
KittenMittens said:
I want it to be true, but the reality is that Sheffield United and Huddersfield are massive anomalies and most clubs spend more than them just getting into mid-table. If you're our buyer, you can't build a realistic predictive model using them.

If you look at the average spends of clubs to get there, it costs an awful lot more, assuming we all understand that you can't build a squad from scratch in a year and that all of these clubs added to a base.

Spend in 3 seasons prior to promotion:

Aston Villa £96.5m
Wolves £62m
Newcastle (1 season) £58m
Fulham £49m
Norwich £41m
Leeds £36m
West Brom (2 seasons) £34m
Fulham (1 season) £33m
Brighton £23.5m
Cardiff £12m
Sheff Utd £11.7m
Huddersfield £4.9m

So the average spend on transfer fees alone to get out of the Championship is around £39m - and that's just transfer fees. Most of those clubs have bought big name players and have huge wage bills too. It also discounts that Sheff Utd spent £65m their first year up, Huddersfield £50m, which often needs financing before PL TV money comes in at the end of the following season. Even if it can be recouped later, the TV money instead often finances the next year, rather than going into an owner's pocket, until the club is profitable across a sustained period and starts generating big commercial revenue.

What is also particularly eye-opening is how much other clubs spend without getting out. Forest, Derby, Brentford, Boro, Bristol City and co have spent £50m+ trying to get promotion over the last few years and some are in financial difficulties as a result.

So I completely agree we need savvy management, we need to not overspend and get the right people, but the reality is that the cost of getting promoted is most likely going to be heavily dependent on decisively spending at least

£37.1m on the club
£5m in our division
£40m in the Championship + big escalations in wage costs (£15m+)
£50m+ to survive in the PL.

So you can see why this is almost certainly a £150m commitment for someone who intends to get us promoted to the Premier League.
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Good detailed response as @The Beautiful Game.

Aye its not going to be easy. As I have said good management is the key and of course together with significant financial backing is ideally what we need.

The one thing in our favour is we have the significant infrastructure in place in terms of the stadium and academy and if we ever get things right on the pitch it will be relatively easy and cheap to extend the stadium to 55,000 then 65,000 and 75,000 (the Club would be in a fantastic place if we needed too).

Very few clubs have our tradition, fan base an easy potential to grow the Club. Thats why we maybe worth the gamble....
 
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The Ghost of Arca said:
People are desperate for it not to be true so they can shout "we told you so" on here man. Thats the most important thing in this whole scenario for some

Ya wasting ya breath
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Don't be silly.
The Beautiful Game said:
No, you can’t plan to do a Sheffield United. There’s plenty of well managed clubs that are stuck in the championship. The only way you can be sustainable in the championship at the same time as being competitive is selling players you’ve bought for more than you bought them for. If that was easy then everyone would do it. Just because that’s the aim doesn’t mean it will work out for you.

Anyone doing due diligence is looking at the actual figures that will be coming in and going out. They arent going to speculate on what they could do if they got an Ollie Watkins.
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I know what you're saying but everyone doesn't have that plan.

Brentford specifically planned to buy potential under its intrinsic value and have gained Watkins amongst countless others due to this. Others clubs haven't even attempted it.

Difference between short term and long.
Northumberland Rocks said:
Ok if we cant plan like Sheff Utd lets plan like Bournemouth or Burnley...and other clubs have got from where we are to establish themselves in the premiership without spending silly money. Surely some savy rich business people, given our history, superb infrastructure and large fan base will think we are worth a little gamble.

Good management is the key but of course good financial backing will make it easier.
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I'm not 100 percent but I think Bournemouth spent a fair bit and Burnley banked a couple of promotions prior to championship wage exploding.

The championship is a completely different beast than it was 10 years ago.

Norwich and Brentford are currently doing great jobs and will progress should benham and Stuart webber stick about. Both are capable of making money through investments.
 
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Sartori takes Sunderland call
There was a 13-hour debate in the Uruguayan senate yesterday, as they decided against stripping former Senator Guido Manini Rios of immunity.


The Senate voted 16-15 against stripping Rios of his immunity, relating to a potential prosecution regarding human rights abuses during his four-year stint as commander of the Uruguayan Army.

Obviously an important debate but
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point out that Sunderland shareholder Juan Sartori was one of the most restless senators and at one point had to step out of the proceedings to take a phone call which he explained to the newspaper were for “Sunderland things”.

Although no further details were given, that could potentially be intriguing considering Sartori’s hands-off approach to his time at Sunderland
 
The Ghost of Arca said:
Sartori takes Sunderland call
There was a 13-hour debate in the Uruguayan senate yesterday, as they decided against stripping former Senator Guido Manini Rios of immunity.


The Senate voted 16-15 against stripping Rios of his immunity, relating to a potential prosecution regarding human rights abuses during his four-year stint as commander of the Uruguayan Army.

Obviously an important debate but
You must be logged on to see external links
point out that Sunderland shareholder Juan Sartori was one of the most restless senators and at one point had to step out of the proceedings to take a phone call which he explained to the newspaper were for “Sunderland things”.

Although no further details were given, that could potentially be intriguing considering Sartori’s hands-off approach to his time at Sunderland
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Man who owns part of a football club takes phone call 😂
 
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