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Season Card Q&A

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fyl2u said:
Falsely claiming?

I was under the impression they hadn't stated which groups they'd consulted and RAWA got the hump because it wasn't them. Has that changed since the initial announcement?

At first glance, your ideas seem great. Perhaps you should suggest them to the club?

As far as I'm concerned, the ideas from the club were fine like. Yours are better though.

As for my pro-club stance, well, I am a supporter. I'm just the type that doesn't spend all day every day fuming about the club and desperately searching for new reasons to be furious at it. It seems that my type of supporter are either starting to become thin on the ground or are staying quiet because they're sick of being an additional target of that fury.

I'm quickly getting there myself. I'm only on this thread because I was summoned by someone that desperately wanted me to be available for their fury and was furious that I hadn't already popped my head above the parapet yet.
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You renewing then mate?
 

fyl2u said:
Now why the fuck would anyone renew right now unless they had so much disposable income that they wouldn't even notice if the price was doubled?

Surely only an absolute moron?
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Because the club has no income and is absolutely desperate for money.

I've cancelled by the way, but would have happily renewed out of blind loyalty to support the club in it's time of need had there been some incentive. But there is none. That's why there is so much anger - people know the consequences, that the club is totally unsustainable without ST income, and it's killing them knowing that cancelling is killing the club. But the club's stubborn pigheadedness has turned people away.

Fyl, iirc you buy streaming passes for every game. I think you've said before you even pay £10 for the Checkatrade streams when match tickets are only £3. I honestly really admire that. You could stream it illegally for free if you wanted but choose to put money into the club instead. Now imagine you paid for your yearly streaming pass but after you'd paid the club said there'd been a technical problem with the supplier and they couldn't guarantee you'd get any streams at all. They'd send you a match report instead or a link to live text commentary but no refunds. You'd probably be a bit annoyed, right?
 
fyl2u said:
Now why the fuck would anyone renew right now unless they had so much disposable income that they wouldn't even notice if the price was doubled?

Surely only an absolute moron?
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Or the club makes it worth their while as it clearly needs the money and the supporters would like to contribute if reasonable.

Edit: Howld on. Do you not even go to the games anyway? Wtf? :lol:
Definitely Maybe said:
Because the club has no income and is absolutely desperate for money.

I've cancelled by the way, but would have happily renewed out of blind loyalty to support the club in it's time of need had there been some incentive. But there is none. That's why there is so much anger - people know the consequences, that the club is totally unsustainable without ST income, and it's killing them knowing that cancelling is killing the club. But the club's stubborn pigheadedness has turned people away.

Fyl, iirc you buy streaming passes for every game. I think you've said before you even pay £10 for the Checkatrade streams when match tickets are only £3. I honestly really admire that. You could stream it illegally for free if you wanted but choose to put money into the club instead. Now imagine you paid for your yearly streaming pass but after you'd paid the club said there'd been a technical problem with the supplier and they couldn't guarantee you'd get any streams at all. They'd send you a match report instead or a link to live text commentary but no refunds. You'd probably be a bit annoyed, right?
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And season ticket holders can have that said same stream for 3, 4, 5 times the price. My mistake, they can only have the home streams and have to fork out even more for the aways.
 
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Definitely Maybe said:
Because the club has no income and is absolutely desperate for money.

I've cancelled by the way, but would have happily renewed out of blind loyalty to support the club in it's time of need had there been some incentive. But there is none. That's why there is so much anger - people know the consequences, that the club is totally unsustainable without ST income, and it's killing them knowing that cancelling is killing the club. But the club's stubborn pigheadedness has turned people away.

Fyl, iirc you buy streaming passes for every game. I think you've said before you even pay £10 for the Checkatrade streams when match tickets are only £3. I honestly really admire that. You could stream it illegally for free if you wanted but choose to put money into the club instead. Now imagine you paid for your yearly streaming pass but after you'd paid the club said there'd been a technical problem with the supplier and they couldn't guarantee you'd get any streams at all. They'd send you a match report instead or a link to live text commentary but no refunds. You'd probably be a bit annoyed, right?
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Well, there is no guarantee. I have to use a "workaround" in order to give the club my money for the streams, and if there is a technical problem that prevents me getting the stream on any given week I know that I won't be eligible for a refund because of that workaround. And this has happened a number of times. It's the risk I take.

In the current climate with no games at all being played, and the almost certainty that when things restart it will be behind closed doors, I really don't see the sense in buying any kind of season pass unless you've got so much money that it wouldn't even matter to you if you lost the whole season card's worth of cash.

And if you decide to do it anyway to support the club, then hats off to you, I salute you for your dedication to the cause. But if you do, then surely you do so at your own risk, knowing that at least some of the season is likely to be behind closed doors? It's not like it hasn't been all over the news for months on end.

Now, I haven't looked at the terms and conditions on a season card or match ticket recently, but if a game was called off or rescheduled for any reason, would a refund be given? I don't know the answer, I'm asking in good faith. If someone could make the first fixture but not the rescheduled one, I'd find it (pleasantly) surprising if a refund was offered.

Now, to me, you've done the sensible thing. You've looked at the deal they've offered and said "OK, that's not for me, I'm cancelling".

The folks I don't understand are the ones that have said "That's not for me, I'm going to rage about it".

Surely if everyone just cancelled like you have, the club would look at it and say "OK, perhaps we should offer more of an incentive" and then everyone might get what they actually want from the situation?

Fury isn't always the best way to get what you want. Anyone that has ever worked in customer services will tell you that.
 
fyl2u said:
How are they trying to shaft anyone?

As far as I can tell, they're offering refunds, and anyone that doesn't take the refund gets free access to the streaming of games played behind closed doors.

Admittedly I'm not following it closely, so apologies if I'm missing something.
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They fact that they weren't going to initially says otherwise
 
fyl2u said:
Now why the fuck would anyone renew right now unless they had so much disposable inc was ome that they wouldn't even notice if the price was doubled?

Surely only an absolute moron?
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I would have still renewed no bother if they never tried to fleece us in the first place by saying we wouldnt get refunds, which is illegal and they had to backtrack on that. Also people who have more than one ticket per household should be charged the same as people who have one per household and at a decent price.

Even the tone of their statements was shocking, they come across as they really dont care. I have had a season ticket 17 year and it hurts me that im cancelling but i will still renew when we are allowed back into the stadium. I just hope they are gone by then but i doubt it.
 
fyl2u said:
Well, there is no guarantee. I have to use a "workaround" in order to give the club my money for the streams, and if there is a technical problem that prevents me getting the stream on any given week I know that I won't be eligible for a refund because of that workaround. And this has happened a number of times. It's the risk I take.

In the current climate with no games at all being played, and the almost certainty that when things restart it will be behind closed doors, I really don't see the sense in buying any kind of season pass unless you've got so much money that it wouldn't even matter to you if you lost the whole season card's worth of cash.

And if you decide to do it anyway to support the club, then hats off to you, I salute you for your dedication to the cause. But if you do, then surely you do so at your own risk, knowing that at least some of the season is likely to be behind closed doors? It's not like it hasn't been all over the news for months on end.

Now, I haven't looked at the terms and conditions on a season card or match ticket recently, but if a game was called off or rescheduled for any reason, would a refund be given? I don't know the answer, I'm asking in good faith. If someone could make the first fixture but not the rescheduled one, I'd find it (pleasantly) surprising if a refund was offered.

Now, to me, you've done the sensible thing. You've looked at the deal they've offered and said "OK, that's not for me, I'm cancelling".

The folks I don't understand are the ones that have said "That's not for me, I'm going to rage about it".

Surely if everyone just cancelled like you have, the club would look at it and say "OK, perhaps we should offer more of an incentive" and then everyone might get what they actually want from the situation?

Fury isn't always the best way to get what you want. Anyone that has ever worked in customer services will tell you that.
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I would say there's a few reasons for the fury:

a) The original ST deadline was back in April when the situation was very different. Some people pay by direct debit, others pay up front in one go. As per the original statement, people who'd paid up front weren't entitled to anything other than the streaming pass. It was only after the fury - and after it was pointed out what they were doing is illegal - that they revised this.

b) People bought individual match tickets before the season was curtailed but were told they wouldn't be entitled to anything other than the streaming pass. Again, that is illegal - the T&C of the ticket are you're entitled to attend the rescheduled game or a refund if you can't.

c) People don't want to see the club die and want to support the club financially but were given a totally unfair deal

d) The tone of the statement and Q&A was (imo) disgraceful.

Have a listen to the latest Wise Men Say, they discuss it in detail and make very valid points.
 
Definitely Maybe said:
I would say there's a few reasons for the fury:

a) The original ST deadline was back in April when the situation was very different. Some people pay by direct debit, others pay up front in one go. As per the original statement, people who'd paid up front weren't entitled to anything other than the streaming pass. It was only after the fury - and after it was pointed out what they were doing is illegal - that they revised this.

b) People bought individual match tickets before the season was curtailed but were told they wouldn't be entitled to anything other than the streaming pass. Again, that is illegal - the T&C of the ticket are you're entitled to attend the rescheduled game or a refund if you can't.

c) People don't want to see the club die and want to support the club financially but were given a totally unfair deal

d) The tone of the statement and Q&A was (imo) disgraceful.

Have a listen to the latest Wise Men Say, they discuss it in detail and make very valid points.
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Ah, I've stopped listening to WMS and RR. The last few I listened to were full of lies, anti-owner propaganda and rewriting of history to make themselves look less foolish over the whole "joint statement" situation. To borrow a phrase from those people who mistrust the owners, "If WMS or RR told me it was raining, I'd have to look outside and check".

You do make some good points with regard to the reasons people might have been angry at first. I don't see how they can still be angry now that they have a choice between getting a refund or going with the streaming deal though. I mean, are you personally still angry about the new SC situation now that you've chosen to cancel?
 
fyl2u said:
Ah, I've stopped listening to WMS and RR. The last few I listened to were full of lies, anti-owner propaganda and rewriting of history to make themselves look less foolish over the whole "joint statement" situation. To borrow a phrase from those people who mistrust the owners, "If WMS or RR told me it was raining, I'd have to look outside and check".

You do make some good points with regard to the reasons people might have been angry at first. I don't see how they can still be angry now that they have a choice between getting a refund or going with the streaming deal though. I mean, are you personally still angry about the new SC situation now that you've chosen to cancel?
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I'm still angry because the club needs money and we've got witless morons running us who have actively ensured that thousands upon thousands will cancel their season cards. We're left with a choice of a) pay now to help the club and end up out of pocket compared to someone who doesn't or b) don't help the club and be better off overall.

It's just mental, no club in the world has ever ensured that the sensible option is to cancel, especially because they know that once people cancel there's no guarantee they'll come back.

It annoys me that people this seemingly incompetent are the ones trusted with not running the club into the ground! If this is what their decision making is like it doesn't bode well. This decision will actively harm my club, that's why people are annoyed about it, the owners of the club are meant to try and ensure it thrives, not give people a reason to plunge it into even more financial uncertainty
 
fyl2u said:
Falsely claiming?

I was under the impression they hadn't stated which groups they'd consulted and RAWA got the hump because it wasn't them. Has that changed since the initial announcement?

At first glance, your ideas seem great. Perhaps you should suggest them to the club?

As far as I'm concerned, the ideas from the club were fine like. Yours are better though.

As for my pro-club stance, well, I am a supporter. I'm just the type that doesn't spend all day every day fuming about the club and desperately searching for new reasons to be furious at it. It seems that my type of supporter are either starting to become thin on the ground or are staying quiet because they're sick of being an additional target of that fury.

I'm quickly getting there myself. I'm only on this thread because I was summoned by someone that desperately wanted me to be available for their fury and was furious that I hadn't already popped my head above the parapet yet.
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I give up
 
fyl2u said:
Ah, I've stopped listening to WMS and RR. The last few I listened to were full of lies, anti-owner propaganda and rewriting of history to make themselves look less foolish over the whole "joint statement" situation. To borrow a phrase from those people who mistrust the owners, "If WMS or RR told me it was raining, I'd have to look outside and check".

You do make some good points with regard to the reasons people might have been angry at first. I don't see how they can still be angry now that they have a choice between getting a refund or going with the streaming deal though. I mean, are you personally still angry about the new SC situation now that you've chosen to cancel?
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I'm not angry as such, more disgruntled.

There seems to be a pattern of the club/owners pushing things as far as they can then backtracking when they go too far.

Charlie calls fans parasites, fans complain, Charlie apologises

The club tell non-ST holders they have to buy a Walsall ticket to qualify for a Wembley ticket. Fans complain, the club blame it on an error on the website and say that was never the intention. Yet we later see the footage on STID of Charlie pushing the idea to make an extra £60k and maximise revenue

Charlie repeatedly says SD is staying away because he's had death threats and personal abuse. Fans complain. SD later says it isn't true and he was just having a break because he'd promised his family he'd spend more time with them

Charlie says Sunderland fans are a disease, we're "unbelievably uneducated in business" and are running around like a drunk girl with mascara on our face. Fans complain. Charlie half-heartedly apologises but also claims he only said it because he'd been provoked despite numerous fans from the meeting saying this was not the case.

And then this - club tries to fleece fans, fans complain, FSA points out what they're doing is illegal, club (in a fashion) backtracks.

I'm just weary of them. Even ignoring the fact they've created a situation where its impossible to support the club financially without completely ripping yourself off, their intention was to take our money and offer something only an absolute moron would take (in your own words ;)) in return. They've treated us with absolute contempt and only partially backtracked when people rightfully kicked off.
 
fyl2u said:
Ah, I've stopped listening to WMS and RR. The last few I listened to were full of lies, anti-owner propaganda and rewriting of history to make themselves look less foolish over the whole "joint statement" situation. To borrow a phrase from those people who mistrust the owners, "If WMS or RR told me it was raining, I'd have to look outside and check".

You do make some good points with regard to the reasons people might have been angry at first. I don't see how they can still be angry now that they have a choice between getting a refund or going with the streaming deal though. I mean, are you personally still angry about the new SC situation now that you've chosen to cancel?
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When have RR and WMS lied
 
Maybe they aren’t wanting to offer a refund in 12 months time, because they are trying to sell. Having the unknown liability of all those refunds would surely not be attractive to any new buyer!
 
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