Jeremy Bamber White House Farm...Innocent or Evil scumbag?

[Roker Skate]

I can't believe Sheila while experiencing a psychotic episode had the foresight to put on a pair of plimsoles in case a glass light shade was broken in a struggle. Then took them off again to commit suicide. Neither her feet or slippers had any shards or debris on them.

In order to have any chance of convicting Bamber for the killings, the police had to conceal any evidence that implicated his sister. That is a key point that anyone deciphering the case needs to bear in mind. They wont disclose the original case file set up for four murders and a suicide and they wont disclose the report that was presented to the Chief Constable (a review of the case evidence that concluded all the evidence pointed to Sheila).

How do you know she didn't take them off as opposed to put them on? Her bed looks like she never slept in that night. She could have been wondering all over and doing umpteen different things.

The pathologist considered that four bullet shots to his head were after he had been decapacitated. Prior to that 21 shots were fired upstairs where 21 bullet cases were found. After counting up the shots to the rest of the family this meant Neville had been shot four times although one was only a grazing shot. The other three were two into the lower jaw and one into a shoulder. Clearly he made it to the kitchen where a violent struggle took place before he was subdued and then shot four times in the side of the head. I cannot accept that Sheila was physically capable of this against a strong 6 ft 4 inches man.

Well if she was experiencing a psychotic episode or was determined to carry out what she was carrying out, and he was already wounded, I personally have no problem with her subduing him. We will simply never know how events played out between father and daughter or how long this took place or exactly what their movements were back and forth inside the farmhouse.

The day after the murders he visited his solicitors and as June and Neville had separate wills the order in which they were killed could have been significant. He even asked the police if they could determine the sequence of deaths. No one priority the day after your entire family have been brutally murdered.

He was told to visit the solicitors. You should check what Robert Boutflour did also, regarding Mable Speakman. The relatives were like vultures:

 

[sedling]

I think all of the Bamber theories of 'police corruption' and 'suppression of evidence' and and and etc etc are thoroughly covered in the appeal judgement of 2002:

HTML VERSION OF JUDGMENT 2002

Point by point, the appeal Judges deconstruct the defence queries in over 522 paragraphs.

I'd recommend, it's a good read!

I also recommend Carol Anne Lee's book for a thoroughly documented review of the case.

 

[Roker Skate]

I think all of the Bamber theories of 'police corruption' and 'suppression of evidence' and and and etc etc are thoroughly covered in the appeal judgement of 2002:

HTML VERSION OF JUDGMENT 2002

Point by point, the appeal Judges deconstruct the defence queries in over 522 paragraphs.

I'd recommend, it's a good read!

I also recommend Carol Anne Lee's book for a thoroughly documented review of the case.

Couldn't be - because tonnes of info only came to light, after the 2002 appeal.

Carol Ann Lee's book is well written but totally downplays the issue of police corruption. It should be read alongside Scott Lomax's book, for contrast.

 

[sedling]

Couldn't be - because tonnes of info only came to light, after the 2002 appeal.

Carol Ann Lee's book is well written but totally downplays the issue of police corruption. It should be read alongside Scott Lomax's book, for contrast.

Read the judgement - nearly all your 'new stuff' is covered,

Surprise surprise.

 

[Roker Skate]

Read the judgement - nearly all your 'new stuff' is covered,

Surprise surprise.

Nice try. I've already read it. It is simply not possible - the appeal was 18 years ago and a lot of disclosure has occurred since then, including by accident. You cannot go in to an appeal with so much stuff not disclosed and regard the appeal as being in any way a fair process. It's like having one arm tied behind your back. This is of course a deliberate strategy by authorities in this case - as each failed appeal narrows down your scope to submit new grounds and obtain another appeal.

This 34 page non-disclosure booklet was produced a few years ago Disclosure Booklet : simplebooklet.com

 

[Bamber]

Uncle Jez didn’t do it.

 

[Linus]

It held 10 I think. But there is no guarantee she took the option of loading the tenth. I would have to check , as I'm not that clued up regarding bullets and casings. I know there was some amunition on kitchen bench.



This is correct, regarding content of report.



During the course of his police interviewing, he was subjected to rounds of questioning, goading, abuse etc. as you would expect during police interviewing of that era. He never believed she was murdered because he had been outside with police for 3.5 hours while they tried to communicate with whoever was in the farmhouse (the alternative to this scenario, is that for 3.5 hours, everyone just waited outside a totally silent farmhouse). When he was told everyone was dead, his reaction was the blame the TFG for shooting his family. Why didn't he blame his sister? He's supposed to have set her up. This suggests that the police considered there to be signs of life in the farmhouse during those 3.5 hours. In about 2004, two Italian professors submitted reports to the effect that from crime scene photos, and from details in police witness statements, her time of death was in the vicinity of the time the TFG operation on the farmhouse took place. The CCRC rejected their reports, on the grounds that they had studied photographs rather than her actual corpse. If he was sarcastic at any point during questioning, it may have been because he knew it was bullshit or because he was reacting to snide questioning. You or me might do the same in such circs.

The police have never released photos of what was at the window (either a rifle or something that appeared to be a rifle) that was sighted by two separate police officers on spotting duty outside, prior to the raid. The only rifle found upstairs was on top of her. The spotters' statements were never disclosed to the defence (so the defence never had an opportunity to question any of this in court or at subsequent appeals). One of the raid team members who were the first on the scene, expressed he had no recollection of seeing a rifle being on top of her - and again, none of this was disclosed to the defence. In fact the TFG officers "as a team" expressed their concerns several times regarding the crime scene having been altered after they left it.




The police are pathological liars when it comes to this case. And if they weren't, why has Roy Tyzak spoken up? That takes a lot of courage - because police normally close ranks. He's not the only former EP officer who has turned against their former employer on this case.

As for the nude photos, I am undecided. He could have done it tbh. I have heard there were three sets of images (some slides, and some separate photos). One thing that should be considered is the The Sun journalist Fielder does not have a good rep himself. Below is a different version of what took place:


It has often been written that on Monday 16th September 1985 Jeremy and Brett met Mr Michael Fielder, a journalist from The Sun newspaper, in the Nags Head Public House in Chelmsford where it has been alleged Jeremy offered to sell topless images of Sheila to the newspaper. Brett had convinced Jeremy that he should meet with Fielder so he could give him his version of events and perhaps be paid for his story regarding the tragedies. Fielder however was not interested in listening to Jeremy, and instead raised the issue of Jeremy having nude photographs of Sheila, hoping that Jeremy would sell them to him to publish. Nude photos did exist, as Colin Caffell admitted in a statement dated 24 September 1985, that he took photographs of Sheila whilst she was sunbathing in the nude at White House Farm, he explained: “These were of Sheila sunbathing in a field and at the time she had no clothes on at all. These photographs were processed onto slides”. Caffell went on to say that upon their break up Sheila had kept the slides.


On 7th September 1985, during a visit to ‘Moreshead Mansions’ to collect property which had belonged to the children and albums of photographs, including Sheila’s portfolio, Jeremy pointed out to Colin that there were a number of professionally taken shots of Sheila which he may not be aware of and showed them to Caffell. Colin described these to Essex Police saying: “The slides had been professionally taken and were of Sheila in various states of undress in a paddling pool. I think I would describe these slides as 'soft pornography' as they were quite explicit in detail. I asked Jeremy if I could take these slides so that I could destroy them. He agreed that I could take them, which I did.”


From there, Caffell admits he did not actually destroy the images, but instead: “I disposed of them by putting them in the dustbin. I did, in fact, place the slides into a dustbin liner and handed them to a refuse collector to ensure they went into the dustcart.” It is therefore clear that some nine days prior to Jeremy allegedly wishing to sell these photographs to Mr Fielder, they were already in the possession of Colin Caffell, and the story about Jeremy trying to sell the pictures is wholly untrue.


Effectively the prosecution witnesses, including those who found the silencer exhibit (after Bamber had given them the keys to the farmhouse, directly after the tragedy) were the beneficiaries. Robert Boutflour, Bamber's uncle gave evidence in court to the effect that Bamber had previously said to him "uncle Bobby.. I could easily shoot my parents". The jury were suspicious of Robert Boutflour's claims and so they submitted a question to the court as to whether he (RB) would benefit in any way from Bamber's conviction. Boutflour replied that he would not. Upon Bamber's conviction, the deceased Bambers' estate went to Robert Boutflour's wife. The same prosecution witness is mentioned further up on this thread re other circs relating to this case.

"In about 2004, two Italian professors submitted reports..."

Italian professors of what exactly?
What are their names?
Who hired them?

 

[dom]

I don’t know if he did it or not but if I was on the jury at a retrial, I’d certainly have enough doubt to call not guilty.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

I think all of the Bamber theories of 'police corruption' and 'suppression of evidence' and and and etc etc are thoroughly covered in the appeal judgement of 2002:

HTML VERSION OF JUDGMENT 2002

Point by point, the appeal Judges deconstruct the defence queries in over 522 paragraphs.

I'd recommend, it's a good read!

I also recommend Carol Anne Lee's book for a thoroughly documented review of the case.

Thanks for that. It's a long read but worthwhile. Also it's a bit ahead of where I am with the original evidence but I'm reassured by many of the conclusions reached in the Appeal that correspond to my own so far. I have yet to consider Sheila's body position but noted that the pathologist determined she was slightly resting on her right side and sitting up before the first shot and the subsequent position of the Bible after the second shot. I think the appeal was more than fair and even decided not to hear further specialist evidence regarding the movement of her body after death that would have considerably strengthened the prosecution case if it had been heard by the jury at the time.

Its a disturbing case. I've previously researched Belsen Concentration Camp in detail and my advice for anyone doing that would to get some de-briefing afterwards because of the horror. So I've dealt with difficult subjects but this case is heartbreaking. With Jeremy Bamber both before and after the murders it's always been a case of me, me, me. The way Sheila has been framed and maligned is bad. The more I read, the more convinced I am of his guilt. RIP Sheila and her family.

 

[Roker Skate]

"In about 2004, two Italian professors submitted reports..."

Italian professors of what exactly?
What are their names?
Who hired them?

Professor Marco Meloni and a Professor Cavalli. The defence hired them. However, it later came back to bite Bamber, as although his lawyer at the time progressed certain aspects of the case, he was Giovanni Di-Stefano, who came a cropper himself.

 

[Linus]

Professor Marco Meloni and a Professor Cavalli. The defence hired them. However, it later came back to bite Bamber, as although his lawyer at the time progressed certain aspects of the case, he was Giovanni Di-Stefano, who came a cropper himself.

Oh dear.. I assumed Giovanni Di Stefano was involved, (still in jail for deception, fraud, money laundering..) he claimed to be an Italian lawyer, but wasn't and isn't.

 

[Roker Skate]

Oh dear.. I assumed Giovanni Di Stefano was involved, (still in jail for deception, fraud, money laundering..) he claimed to be an Italian lawyer, but wasn't and isn't.

That's right. At the time he was high profile on account of having represented certain notorious individuals. He took over from Ewen Smith who had presided over the failed 2002 appeal.

 

[Linus]

That's right. At the time he was high profile on account of having represented certain notorious individuals. He took over from Ewen Smith who had presided over the failed 2002 appeal.

Well I hope he has more plausible representation now.

 

[Roker Skate]

Well I hope he has more plausible representation now.

Mark Newby.

He had Simon McKay for a while, which resulted in this: Gun experts raise doubts over Jeremy Bamber murder verdict

One of the experts stated more tests needed to be carried out, so the defence were told to do this and given a time limit - but they couldn't raise the funds and time limit ran out, so the whole lot was rejected.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Mark Newby.

He had Simon McKay for a while, which resulted in this: Gun experts raise doubts over Jeremy Bamber murder verdict

One of the experts stated more tests needed to be carried out, so the defence were told to do this and given a time limit - but they couldn't raise the funds and time limit ran out, so the whole lot was rejected.

This has already been mentioned earlier in the thread and is covered in the documentary that was posted.

Heated to 200 Celsius with a blowtorch the barrel produced a shape that was superficially similar to the burns on Neville's back. More so than when the silencer was heated. However, neither were of the intensity or severity of the actual burns. Tests on the rifle after the firing of 25 shots indicated it reached a temperature no higher than 25 Celsius. Therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that something else was used to produce the burns. That Sheila should even think to do this is unreasonable.
Such an act would indicate Sheila was aware of the consequences of her actions whereas someone experiencing a psychotic episode would not.
Jeremy Bamber's defence seems to be based on assumptions that Sheila was experiencing a frenzied psychotic episode when it suits them and then extremely lucid moments when that suits them. You can't have it both ways and claim to be reasonable.

...We will simply never know how events played out between father and daughter or how long this took place or exactly what their movements were back and forth inside the farmhouse.....

Actually that's not strictly true. Considering the weapon used, the spent ammunition upstairs and the injuries sustained, it can be reasonably concluded that by the time the struggle reached the kitchen: the two boys were dead, June Bamber had been shot 3 to 5 times down the right side of her body but was still alive and that Neville Bamber hat been shot 4 times although one was a grazing wound. One of the shot that entered had damaged his larynx and other his lower lip.

It can then be reasonably deduced that the killer then returned upstairs and fatally shot June Bamber in the doorway of her bedroom.

I don't think Neville Bamber took the bedroom telephone downstairs into the kitchen or could have spoken to Jeremy Bamber with such wounds.
In the kitchen after a fierce struggle in which his nose was broken and part of the rifle butt broken off, four more shots were fired into Neville Bamber's head.
It's all in the maths and arithmetic.

 

[Deleted member 12331]

This has already been mentioned earlier in the thread and is covered in the documentary that was posted.

Heated to 200 Celsius with a blowtorch the barrel produced a shape that was superficially similar to the burns on Neville's back. More so than when the silencer was heated. However, neither were of the intensity or severity of the actual burns. Tests on the rifle after the firing of 25 shots indicated it reached a temperature no higher than 25 Celsius. Therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that something else was used to produce the burns. That Sheila should even think to do this is unreasonable.
Such an act would indicate Sheila was aware of the consequences of her actions whereas someone experiencing a psychotic episode would not.
Jeremy Bamber's defence seems to be based on assumptions that Sheila was experiencing a frenzied psychotic episode when it suits them and then extremely lucid moments when that suits them. You can't have it both ways and claim to be reasonable.


Actually that's not strictly true. Considering the weapon used, the spent ammunition upstairs and the injuries sustained, it can be reasonably concluded that by the time the struggle reached the kitchen: the two boys were dead, June Bamber had been shot 3 to 5 times down the right side of her body but was still alive and that Neville Bamber hat been shot 4 times although one was a grazing wound. One of the shot that entered had damaged his larynx and other his lower lip.

It can then be reasonably deduced that the killer then returned upstairs and fatally shot June Bamber in the doorway of her bedroom.

I don't think Neville Bamber took the bedroom telephone downstairs into the kitchen or could have spoken to Jeremy Bamber with such wounds.
In the kitchen after a fierce struggle in which his nose was broken and part of the rifle butt broken off, four more shots were fired into Neville Bamber's head.
It's all in the maths and arithmetic.

Would the silencer have made the gun really quiet, or would it still be loud enough to disturb everyone in the house when the first shot was fired?
Other than Neville, did the rest of the household not try to flee or fight back?

 

[bowers2]

Thanks for that. It's a long read but worthwhile. Also it's a bit ahead of where I am with the original evidence but I'm reassured by many of the conclusions reached in the Appeal that correspond to my own so far. I have yet to consider Sheila's body position but noted that the pathologist determined she was slightly resting on her right side and sitting up before the first shot and the subsequent position of the Bible after the second shot. I think the appeal was more than fair and even decided not to hear further specialist evidence regarding the movement of her body after death that would have considerably strengthened the prosecution case if it had been heard by the jury at the time.

Its a disturbing case. I've previously researched Belsen Concentration Camp in detail and my advice for anyone doing that would to get some de-briefing afterwards because of the horror. So I've dealt with difficult subjects but this case is heartbreaking. With Jeremy Bamber both before and after the murders it's always been a case of me, me, me. The way Sheila has been framed and maligned is bad. The more I read, the more convinced I am of his guilt. RIP Sheila and her family.

The scene where he wrote on that piece of paper was extremely chilling.
I’ve not seen him for 25 year however, this brought back chilling memories. It is EXACTLY what he was like (and still is) writing shit and pity or attention letters when no one else was listening. Horrible creature.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Would the silencer have made the gun really quiet, or would it still be loud enough to disturb everyone in the house when the first shot was fired?
Other than Neville, did the rest of the household not try to flee or fight back?

I don't know so I worked on both possibilities when analysing the maths. Either way both extremes led to the same conclusions. That by the time the struggle reached the kitchen: the two boys were dead, June Bamber had been shot 3 to 5 times and Neville Bamber shot 4 times. Three bullets had entered Neville, two to the lower face and jaw and one in the upper left shoulder.

The non fatal shots to June had been to: right side of lower neck, right forearm, right side of upper chest, right side of lower chest and right knee. Bearing in mind she had been shot between 3 and 5 times, June would have been restricted in her ability to flee. June also had bruising to her left eye and a graze on her left breast. The pathologist concluded that the shots to the right forearm and knee had been defensive and that she had become upright after being shot but before the fatal shots were delivered at the bedroom door.

Sheila was found on her back with two gunshot wounds to the neck and up through the lower jaw into the brain. The pathologist concluded that Sheila had been in sitting position but slightly resting on her right side when the first shot was fired. The second shot was instantly fatal. The first shot had damaged her jugular resulting is blood forming a pool. The bible was found opened but slightly resting on her upper body and arm. Analysis of the Bible revealed that the blood had been caused while the book was shut so it had been subsequently opened before its final placement.

Later expert analysis concluded Sheila had been pulled by her feet into a straighter position on her back and that the nightdress was then pulled down to cover her upper legs and genital area. She had no bruises, scratches or scrapes to he body, which was clean and barefoot. No blood from anyone else was found on her. She was on prescription for antipsychotics/major tranquillisers and had been described as earlier in a lethargic and vacant state. In a state of shock she would have been unable to consider escape and compliant with the killer so put up no struggle.

The defence has claimed that the police had staged the scene to frame him but it looks as if that means they stage the scene to appear as murder/suicide which was there initial conclusion. So this is a bizarre claim.

The scene where he wrote on that piece of paper was extremely chilling.
I’ve not seen him for 25 year however, this brought back chilling memories. It is EXACTLY what he was like (and still is) writing shit and pity or attention letters when no one else was listening. Horrible creature.

Well I've looked at and analysed the bulk of the relevant evidence and I find it difficult to come to any other conclusion that Jeremy Bamber murdered all five victims and then staged certain aspects to make it appear as though Sheila was the one. Some of his claims are staggeringly impossible.

My own personal feelings are that there is no-one has ever been of importance in Jeremy Bamber's life except Jeremy Bamber. A manipulative monster that is evil beyond normal belief.

 

[zinedine]

Couldn't be - because tonnes of info only came to light, after the 2002 appeal.

Carol Ann Lee's book is well written but totally downplays the issue of police corruption. It should be read alongside Scott Lomax's book, for contrast.

Police corruption? What would the police gain by stitching up Bamber? They've got an open and shut case that it was murder and suicide. So why would they decide to frame a completely innocent man and thus clear the name of the real killer?

 

[Roker Skate]

This has already been mentioned earlier in the thread and is covered in the documentary that was posted.

Heated to 200 Celsius with a blowtorch the barrel produced a shape that was superficially similar to the burns on Neville's back. More so than when the silencer was heated. However, neither were of the intensity or severity of the actual burns. Tests on the rifle after the firing of 25 shots indicated it reached a temperature no higher than 25 Celsius. Therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that something else was used to produce the burns.

Regarding the article, you seem to be referring only to the burns on Nevill's back? If that is the case, regarding the burns - this is what is actually stated:

Evidence that the fatal wounds had been fired by a rifle without a silencer are corroborated by further fresh analysis of burn marks on Nevill Bamber's back. The findings are supported by firearms experts working for Dr John Manlove, an Oxfordshire-based forensic scientist.

Manlove states: "From its size and shape, this mark could possibly have been caused by the hot muzzle of a firearm, without a sound moderator." He says that further testing is required with the murder weapon, an Anschütz 525 rifle, to underpin his initial assessment.

Manlove's conclusions are corroborated by gunfire tests conducted last month in Arizona. A report by Daniel Caruso, chief of burn services at the Arizona Burn Centre and executive chair of the department of surgery at the University of Arizona, states: "In my professional opinion, the three wounds sustained by Ralph [Nevill] Bamber are consistent in size, shape and diameter with a threaded end of a model 525 Anschütz rifle barrel heated sufficiently to cause injury."

That Sheila should even think to do this is unreasonable.
Such an act would indicate Sheila was aware of the consequences of her actions whereas someone experiencing a psychotic episode would not.

One of Sheila's boyfriends witnessed a psychotic episode, during which he feared for both his own and her safety. In between the episodes where she was frantic, there were sedentary periods, where Sheila sat staring in to space and combing her hair.

Jeremy Bamber's defence seems to be based on assumptions that Sheila was experiencing a frenzied psychotic episode when it suits them and then extremely lucid moments when that suits them. You can't have it both ways and claim to be reasonable.

I wouldn't describe placing a semi-automatic weapon in (or on) an Aga necessarily as lucid - but I accept that it's a deliberate act. The Aga seems to be the only heat source in that vicinity. If the weapon was not used to prod Nevill in an act of coercion, then it was possibly used to check if he was dead?