Why don’t the 14 clubs in the top flight...

chriswallace85 said:
Soz marra, I lost interest. :lol:

The game evolves. Different things happen, different money comes in. Players change. Managers change. Stadiums changed. I'm not about to start worrying that a couple of trends over a three year period signal the doom of competition in domestic football.

Owt can happen. And in football, it quite often does - apart from the likes of a select few winning most of the trophies most of the time.
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Trends? it's the last 14 seasons now man that these teams have dominated the top 4 places and last decade the top 6, apart that single blip of Leicester.

How can different money come in now that FFP is in place and the big boys are already worth billions?

It's certainly not going to evolve anytime soon as now the big 6 rule the roost and also taking over Europe. Unless a meteoriod that's currently out in space strikes the earth and wipes out the Premier League like it did the dinosaurs so football evolution can try again :lol:
 


MackemX said:
Trends? it's the last 14 seasons now man that these teams have dominated the top 4 places and last decade the top 6, apart that single blip of Leicester.

How can different money come in now that FFP is in place and the big boys are already worth billions?

It's certainly not going to evolve anytime soon as now the big 6 rule the roost and also taking over Europe. Unless a meteoriod that's currently out in space strikes the earth and wipes out the Premier League like it did the dinosaurs so football evolution can try again :lol:
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They're not taking over Europe at all man. It's one season FFS, and only two of those sides can actually win anything.

The top 4 has opened up massively over the past decade. The competition is healthier. And what will happen when these top 6 clubs rely too heavily on being a top 4 club? Something will give eventually, and that can create opportunities. Top clubs will/should recover, because they've got the infrastructure to do so, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility to fall foul of crippling financial failure.

The money gets bigger but it's all cyclical. Once again, the same clubs tend to win the top trophies.
 
Has there ever been a period in the top division where there hasn't been a big 2,3,4,5 etc?

Surely we're one of the best leagues with us having at least a big 6, rather than France for example.
 
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chriswallace85 said:
They're not taking over Europe at all man. It's one season FFS, and only two of those sides can actually win anything.

The top 4 has opened up massively over the past decade. The competition is healthier. And what will happen when these top 6 clubs rely too heavily on being a top 4 club? Something will give eventually, and that can create opportunities. Top clubs will/should recover, because they've got the infrastructure to do so, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility to fall foul of crippling financial failure.

The money gets bigger but it's all cyclical. Once again, the same clubs tend to win the top trophies.
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Aye it's opened up to 4 from 6 and the 2 that don't get there get into the Europa instead so still can grab a few million as consolation. It's not all that though as there's the exposure they now get by being on TV week in week out (which wasn't around years ago) so that means far great sponsorship, merchandising and all the avenues of generating revenue that aren't simply down to TV money.

Those 6 teams have always been big to some degree but now the dust has settled and they're worth billions in total and more established than any previous teams as shown over the last 20 years up and even more so of the last 3 seasons of them taking the top 6 places after only a few months.

How on earth can any of the other 14 clubs now compete when they not only can't win it but can't even get a sniff of the millions from Europe? They can't rely on some rich arab coming along any more as that's been nipped in the bud. Leicester got £70 million from their one off Champions League venture but have they since challenged it again?

If you think this evolution stage of football cyclic then I guess I'll leave it at that seeing as you still haven't told me how many different teams finished top 4 (and how many times) from 1970 to 1990 prior to Sky hoying big money in the league. I guess it's because you know it will be a canny few teams that have done it numerous times and not just this very lopside stat for the last 20 seasons.

Man Utd -16
Man City -9 (all last 9 seasons)
Liverpool -12
Arsenal -17
Chelsea -14
Spurs - 6 (5 this decade including last 4 seasons)

The rest total all of 6 places out of the 80 available over the 20 seasons with just 1 in the last 14 seasons.

Leicester - 1 (1st 2015)
Everton - 1 (4th 2005)
Newcastle - 2 (4th 2003 & 2004)
Leeds - 2 (3rd 2000 & 4th 2001)
 
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MackemX said:
Aye it's opened up to 4 from 6 and the 2 that don't get there get into the Europa instead so still can grab a few million as consolation. It's not all that though as there's the exposure they now get by being on TV week in week out (which wasn't around years ago) so that means far great sponsorship, merchandising and all the avenues of generating revenue that aren't simply down to TV money.

Those 6 teams have always been big to some degree but now the dust has settled and they're worth billions in total and more established than any previous teams as shown over the last 20 years up and even more so of the last 3 seasons of them taking the top 6 places after only a few months.

How on earth can any of the other 14 clubs now compete when they not only can't win it but can't even get a sniff of the millions from Europe? They can't rely on some rich arab coming along any more as that's been nipped in the bud. Leicester got £70 million from their one off Champions League venture but have they since challenged it again?

If you think this evolution stage of football cyclic then I guess I'll leave it at that seeing as you still haven't told me how many different teams finished top 4 (and how many times) from 1970 to 1990 prior to Sky hoying big money in the league. I guess it's because you know it will be a canny few teams that have done it numerous times and not just this very lopside stat for the last 20 seasons.

Man Utd -16
Man City -9 (all last 9 seasons)
Liverpool -12
Arsenal -17
Chelsea -14
Spurs - 6 (5 this decade including last 4 seasons)

The rest total all of 6 places out of the 80 available over the 20 seasons with just 1 in the last 14 seasons.

Leicester - 1 (1st 2015)
Everton - 1 (4th 2005)
Newcastle - 2 (4th 2003 & 2004)
Leeds - 2 (3rd 2000 & 4th 2001)
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:lol: I'm not wasting me time gannin' through it man.
 
MackemX said:
Aye it's opened up to 4 from 6 and the 2 that don't get there get into the Europa instead so still can grab a few million as consolation. It's not all that though as there's the exposure they now get by being on TV week in week out (which wasn't around years ago) so that means far great sponsorship, merchandising and all the avenues of generating revenue that aren't simply down to TV money.

Those 6 teams have always been big to some degree but now the dust has settled and they're worth billions in total and more established than any previous teams as shown over the last 20 years up and even more so of the last 3 seasons of them taking the top 6 places after only a few months.

How on earth can any of the other 14 clubs now compete when they not only can't win it but can't even get a sniff of the millions from Europe? They can't rely on some rich arab coming along any more as that's been nipped in the bud. Leicester got £70 million from their one off Champions League venture but have they since challenged it again?

If you think this evolution stage of football cyclic then I guess I'll leave it at that seeing as you still haven't told me how many different teams finished top 4 (and how many times) from 1970 to 1990 prior to Sky hoying big money in the league. I guess it's because you know it will be a canny few teams that have done it numerous times and not just this very lopside stat for the last 20 seasons.

Man Utd -16
Man City -9 (all last 9 seasons)
Liverpool -12
Arsenal -17
Chelsea -14
Spurs - 6 (5 this decade including last 4 seasons)

The rest total all of 6 places out of the 80 available over the 20 seasons with just 1 in the last 14 seasons.

Leicester - 1 (1st 2015)
Everton - 1 (4th 2005)
Newcastle - 2 (4th 2003 & 2004)
Leeds - 2 (3rd 2000 & 4th 2001)
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why cant rhey get a sniff of the millions of europe? burnley and wolves are among the recent teams that have or will..
 
MackemX said:
No need to though as we both know it's going to be quite a few teams ;)

Aye sorry I forgot they qualified for the qualifiers by default by finishing 7th.
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It is - as I've said I've been through this argument before. However, I think you'll find that in the majority of seasons a lot of the same names turn up. It may be more consistent now, I'm not arguing that it's not, but the likes of your Liverpools, Arsenals, Manchester Uniteds have been there or thereabouts for a long long time, give or take a few blips in their own histories.
 
chriswallace85 said:
It is - as I've said I've been through this argument before. However, I think you'll find that in the majority of seasons a lot of the same names turn up. It may be more consistent now, I'm not arguing that it's not, but the likes of your Liverpools, Arsenals, Manchester Uniteds have been there or thereabouts for a long long time, give or take a few blips in their own histories.
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Aye I agree but over the older seasons, it was still interesting for other teams to have a venture up near the top like we even did and get a buzz. The last few seasons have the big 6 (apart from Leicester) trying to get the 4 CL places and if not then they've got a top 6 as a consolation as the rest are way behind. Now I think even those dreams of other teams getting up near the top are starting to fade for some teams (especially fans) looking at the last few seasons and how the 6 pull away and stay there.

I don't recall it ever being like that since I started watching football a few decades ago that a league had the same 6 favourites cementing a place in the top 6 after a few months of the season leaving the 14 also rans to battle it out for 7th and relegation.
 
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People moaning about the top 6 and about City breaking FFP

FFP is set up to protect the elite - the only way to break into it is to have a city type of ownership

And those wanting the top 6 to leave - it would be a disaster for English football and the whole if European football - all money would disappear overnight. Clubs would struggle to balance books at all levels & it would collapse
 
I see Man City are considering a move for Harry Maguire, so there’s one of the few teams outside the top six who look capable of possibly challenging them about to lose one of their best players.

And the cycle continues.
 
phillips10 said:
Who are there to just be cannon fodder for the “big six” demand change? If they refuse tell them to fuck off and play each other every week.

I’m sick of how boring football is.
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The same reason we didn't when we were cannon fodder.

phillips10 said:
So you’re happy that the best you can ever hope for as a Sunderland fan is mid-table mediocrity in the top flight? Fair play if you are.
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A lot on here have said they'll be happy with mid table mediocrity in the Championship.
 
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AC Mack said:
Strange time to bring this up. We've just seen two of the best Champions League semi finals, and there's four English teams contesting the two European Cup finals. None of whom are the side who just won the treble.

We've just seen a superb title race, not to mention some brilliant play offs, including Sunderland going back to Wembley.

But aye, football is boring.
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The title race was only a race at all because Liverpool had an exceptional season.

Otherwise it would have been all over at Easter.
 
keybuk said:
I think you might have got a better reception off some on here if you used predictable rather than boring. Although when things are predictable it does get boring.

If the top six buggered off to some European league that's fine with me. We'll see how interested their supporters are in it having to shell out hundreds every other weekend to watch away games. Of course with whatever replaces them is just as likely to become another league dominated by the richest clubs.

If they do ever piss off, no FA cup or League cup entry and no starting a second string for them.
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They won't though.

Because when the big boys aren't guaranteed a trophy every season, they'll take their ball home again.

They got it cushy right were they are.

Trophies on tap and the lions share of the income.

What A Waster said:
Nobody in Indonesia is buying a premier league subscription to see Burnley vs Crystal Palace.
The big 6 are the global brands that people are interested in.
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Liverpool were once a Second Division team. Leeds were once one of the top six teams in the land.

Football goes in cycles but that creates too much uncertainty for the money men.

So they've built themselves an impregnable fortress and pulled up the drawbridge.

The rest of us are paddling around the moat in a leaky boat trying to figure a way in.
 
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