For the money we have spent



Its just my view marra, I think we have lacked quality all year, hence so many draws. I just think we needed a bit more investment

We could have spent 200k and it be more than the whole league combined, sick of that line, not really interested on what other teams spend

We aren't trying to become a sustainable league one team.
We aren't anywhere near a sustainable league one team. We have spent way more than the rest of the league, more than both teams promoted last year, probably the highest if not close to the highest ever spent at this level.
We might not have got value for that investment, but I am not sure that means we should have just spent more.

Fact check time:
Luton signed 11 players this year, not 28.
Of the 11 they have signed only 6 have played more than 5 games ...55%:

Aaron Connelly - 1
Sonny Bradley - 42
Andrew Shinney - 38
Matty Pearson - 43
George Moncur - 32

Eunan O’Kane - 3
Jason Cummings - 26
George Thorne - 3
Jorge Grant - 13
Alex Baptiste - 1
Kazenga Lua Lua - 20

Their new players attribute for 222 appearances this season.


Sunderland have signed 17 new players this year, of the 17 we have signed all 17 have played more than 5 times. 100%:

Will Grigg - 15
Charlie Wyke - 22
Jack Baldwin - 34
Dylan McGeoch - 21
Jon McLaughlin - 43
Glen Loovens - 11
Alim Ozturk - 7
Tom Flanagan- 29
Grant Leadbitter - 14
Reece James - 27
Chris McGuire - 30
Jimmy Dunne - 12
Jerome Sinclair - 19
Kaziah Sterling - 6
Max Power - 32
Lewis Morgan - 15
Luke O’Nien - 34

Our new signings attribute to 371 appearances.


So tell me again how everyone else in the league have changed their entire squad and we are no different to the rest of the league :rolleyes:


Source: Sunderland AFC - Transfers 18/19
I think your argument would have far more weight with people if we had started slowly due to bedding in new players and picked up as the season went on, but that doesn’t seem to have been the case.
We had to sign more players than most but then we already had more higher calibre players and paid better wages and spent more.
 
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We aren't anywhere near a sustainable league one team. We have spent way more than the rest of the league, more than both teams promoted last year, probably the highest if not close to the highest ever spent at this level.
We might not have got value for that investment, but I am not sure that means we should have just spent more.


I think your argument would have far more weight with people if we had started slowly due to bedding in new players and picked up as the season went on, but that doesn’t seem to have been the case.
We had to sign more players than most but then we already had more higher calibre players and paid better wages and spent more.
We did sign more players in both windows than the rest of the league though. We lost our star striker in January and brought Grigg, Leadbitter who until recently was a first team midfielder. Did Morgan come in in Jan too? And Dunne who also has been a first team player until Coventry.

So that’s 2 windows where there has been a lot of upheaval.
 
Accepting you’re entitled to your view, would you have kept Coleman & been happy with his style of play or got someone else in?

I don’t know about Coleman...nothing changed from Grayson. It could’ve been different with a pre-season and new start. Who knows...

Ross doesn’t value possession, he doesn't value cohesion, structure or patience. Its a total clusterfuck of long balls, gifting possession and chasing the game even when leading...its absolutely horrible to watch and will get slaughtered in the Championship. I want a manager who actually changes the way we play the game...I want to finally see a SAFC team play good football. Why go all the way down to League 1 just to play the same shitshow...while we’re down here lets get it fixed!
 
Yes indeed he is. But the point still stands from the OP in that he ultimately failed in that first season but they didn't fire him.

JAck Ross may well go on to be a nothing manager or he may prove to be a good one. Personally, I think its best to give him a chance to learn, improve and build upon things rather than just spit the dummy out at the first hurdle and cry like a baby. Appreciate I also probably in the minority though.


I like JR, he is learning and deserves another season no question in my mind

spot on. The way we have been frightened of teams this season is beyond a joke.

I heard Fowler talking about the Coventry game and you think we were about to play Barcelona...Ross on yesterday how good Peterborough are. No wonder the plays look frightened playing these (with all due respect) giants of Div 3.


I also agree with this, we should not be worried about any team in this league we are head and shoulders above in stature. But we can only beat the team in front of us so we needed to roll our sleeves up and fight. Signing players from Wigan and Peterborough is my biggest concern but it reminds us how far we have fallen, its reality
 
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Bottom line is, the players we did sign, the players we kept on and the wages all these players are on, we should be doing far better than we are. We've kept some of our better players, McGeady, Cattermole, Oviedo and supposedly Gooch and Honeyman, we've had players signed dropping from the league above, Grigg, Leadbitter, Power and Flanagan and we've also signed some of the better players in this league last season like Wyke, O'Nien, Maguire and (supposedly) Baldwin as well as 'coups' from the SPL - McLoughlin and McGeouch.

The talent there as well as the others who stayed on should have been good enough to win automatic promotion - we were clear title favourites at the start of the season. It still might be, who knows, but not having promotion in our hands at this stage of the season is below par and other managers are doing far better with less resources.
I take your point, but surely barnsleys resources were similair, seeing as they were a better team than us last season and got rid of far less players.
And wasn't maguire hated at bury who got relegated, and onien in league 2 last year?
And grigg signed unfit in Jan - generally January signings struggle.

You regularly get teams like Luton too, settled, promoted the previous season with a wining mentality.
One of those things with them.
I'm dissapointed we aren't winning the league, but I never thought it was a certainty, far from it.

I think our outlay and our retention of players and our purchases meant that we should be up there, but there are always too many variables on winning the league.
New additions settling in, and gelling, injuries, players wanting to move and unsettling things. Obviously these factors have effected Barnsey and Luton less than us up till now.
 
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We did sign more players in both windows than the rest of the league though. We lost our star striker in January and brought Grigg, Leadbitter who until recently was a first team midfielder. Did Morgan come in in Jan too? And Dunne who also has been a first team player until Coventry.

So that’s 2 windows where there has been a lot of upheaval.
There are decisions in that too. We didn’t need dunne for example as a result of numbers, same with Leadbitter. We could have decided to keep Maja until the summer and not signed Grigg.
 
Fact check time:
Luton signed 11 players this year, not 28.
Of the 11 they have signed only 6 have played more than 5 games ...55%:

Aaron Connelly - 1
Sonny Bradley - 42
Andrew Shinney - 38
Matty Pearson - 43
George Moncur - 32

Eunan O’Kane - 3
Jason Cummings - 26
George Thorne - 3
Jorge Grant - 13
Alex Baptiste - 1
Kazenga Lua Lua - 20

Their new players attribute for 222 appearances this season.


Sunderland have signed 17 new players this year, of the 17 we have signed all 17 have played more than 5 times. 100%:

Will Grigg - 15
Charlie Wyke - 22
Jack Baldwin - 34
Dylan McGeoch - 21
Jon McLaughlin - 43
Glen Loovens - 11
Alim Ozturk - 7
Tom Flanagan- 29
Grant Leadbitter - 14
Reece James - 27
Chris McGuire - 30
Jimmy Dunne - 12
Jerome Sinclair - 19
Kaziah Sterling - 6
Max Power - 32
Lewis Morgan - 15
Luke O’Nien - 34

Our new signings attribute to 371 appearances.


So tell me again how everyone else in the league have changed their entire squad and we are no different to the rest of the league :rolleyes:


Source: Sunderland AFC - Transfers 18/19
Point me to where I said Luton signed 28 players otherwise like the rest of your posts you're talking bollocks.

Fact check time - I didn't.

No that’s me pointing out that other guy was lying to suit his agenda. My op was just they people are constantly whinging that we spent a lot of money so we should win the league, and it’s not taking anything else into account which in my opinion is wrong.
People then keep coming at me and putting words in my mouth making alternative arguments, so being the argumentative sod I am I argue back. But I keep coming back to my original point; there’s more to it than how much we spent.
Again point me to where I was lying.

Fact check time - You can't.

I recommend you get your f***ing facts right before you start spouting bollocks.
 
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I like JR, he is learning and deserves another season no question in my mind




I also agree with this, we should not be worried about any team in this league we are head and shoulders above in stature. But we can only beat the team in front of us so we needed to roll our sleeves up and fight. Signing players from Wigan and Peterborough is my biggest concern but it reminds us how far we have fallen, its reality
but its players from wigan and peterborough who know how to roll up their sleeves in this division..no point signing fancy dan kids who dont have the balls for a scrap..

There are decisions in that too. We didn’t need dunne for example as a result of numbers, same with Leadbitter. We could have decided to keep Maja until the summer and not signed Grigg.
maja refused t po play didnt he..so we couldnt have kept him?

I take your point, but surely barnsleys resources were similair, seeing as they were a better team than us last season and got rid of far less players.
And wasn't maguire hated at bury who got relegated, and onien in league 2 last year?
And grigg signed unfit in Jan - generally January signings struggle.

You regularly get teams like Luton too, settled, promoted the previous season with a wining mentality.
One of those things with them.
I'm dissapointed we aren't winning the league, but I never thought it was a certainty, far from it.

I think our outlay and our retention of players and our purchases meant that we should be up there, but there are always too many variables on winning the league.
New additions settling in, and gelling, injuries, players wanting to move and unsettling things. Obviously these factors have effected Barnsey and Luton less than us up till now.
barnsely didnt hva esimilar resources and did sell players consistently-they sold fewer because they had fewer..
has maguire been a successful signing? thats debatable-but he has been good in this league for years..
newly promoted teams usualyy struggle in he new league..luton signed 11 players..that they mostly havent played is a sign their recruitment is shite..yet they put the head of recruiment in as manager
 
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barnsley didnt hva esimilar resources and did sell players consistently-they sold fewer because they had fewer..
has maguire been a successful signing? thats debatable-but he has been good in this league for years..
newly promoted teams usualyy struggle in he new league..luton signed 11 players..that they mostly havent played is a sign their recruitment is shite..yet they put the head of recruiment in as manager
So why didnt barnsley have similar resources?
Starting with a better team than us.
Getting rid of less players. Untill grigg, they spent a similar amount, even though they needed less players incoming

Surely they were on a par with us, it's not like we went out and spent loads more than them this summer. Our spending only dwarves other clubs after a january purchase of grigg.
It seems to me fairly obvious we weren't going to be that far apart from Barnsley.
Newly promoted teams sometimes do really well though, such as us the last time we went up from the old div 3, saints when they went up from league one. These things happen. Just cos we spent more cash doesn't mean we will be top. It means we should be doing OK, which we have been.
 
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So why didnt barnsley have similar resources?
Starting with a better team than us.
Getting rid of less players. Untill grigg, they spent a similar amount, even though they needed less players incoming

Surely they were on a par with us, it's not like we went out and spent loads more than them this summer. Our spending only dwarves other clubs after a january purchase of grigg.
It seems to me fairly obvious we weren't going to be that far apart from Barnsley.
Newly promoted teams sometimes do really well though, such as us the last time we went up from the old div 3, saints when they went up from league one. These things happen. Just cos we spent more cash doesn't mean we will be top. It means we should be doing OK, which we have been.
if barnsely needed less incoming..why did they sign so many-more than a whole teams worth?
they sold a striker ti a higher duvusion team in the summer..
we would have finished above barnsley last year if we had a keeper wih hands.
 
if barnsely needed less incoming..why did they sign so many-more than a whole teams worth?
they sold a striker ti a higher duvusion team in the summer..
we would have finished above barnsley last year if we had a keeper wih hands.
We sold a few players to teams that play in a higher division too.
I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make?
Mine is that it wasn't so concievable that Barnsley, who were better than us last Yr, and spent a similar amount (bar jan signing of grigg) and off loaded less players would finish above us. Its been close, and we may still pip them, but being about as good as them is where we should be given those facts. Fans thinking it nailed on we should finish above them are or were a bit deluded
 
We sold a few players to teams that play in a higher division too.
I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make?
Mine is that it wasn't so concievable that Barnsley, who were better than us last Yr, and spent a similar amount (bar jan signing of grigg) and off loaded less players would finish above us. Its been close, and we may still pip them, but being about as good as them is where we should be given those facts
my point is barnsley signed a whole teams worth of new players..we would have finished above barnsely last year if we had just had a competent keeper..
we have a competent keeper now..we arent finishing above them because they recrited better..and have a better manager..
 
my point is barnsley signed a whole teams worth of new players..we would have finished above barnsely last year if we had just had a competent keeper..
we have a competent keeper now..we arent finishing above them because they recrited better..and have a better manager..
They are 4 points better off with playing 1 game more. Its that tight marra.
That's football, fine margins.
If peterboro hadn't equslized in the 90th min, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Barnsley, who were better than us last Yr, have obviously brought in a few players, but to add to the team, not over haul it.
The Barnsley team we played this season is very similar to last year, same bsck 4 iirc about 3 or 4 changes.
However we got rid of so many players, think only Matthews mcgeady and Honeyman played last Yr and this.

So imo they are above us, not cos of a better manager or recruitment, just that it's because of footballs fine margins and the fact that they didn't have to make as many changes.
 
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So if Liverpool sell Mane, Firmino, Salah, Alisson and van Dijk for £500m, then they buy 5 players to replace them for £200m should they win the league at a canter next year because they have spent more than any other club in the league?

That comparison is bollocks.

You can only compare when teams are relegated.

Liverpool being weakened in the same league is not the same as us selling Championship level players upon entering League 1.

If you had half a team and spent way more than any other team can afford there is a more than acceptable opinion that that team should be able to perform to the highest standards of League 1.
 
We did sign more players in both windows than the rest of the league though. We lost our star striker in January and brought Grigg, Leadbitter who until recently was a first team midfielder. Did Morgan come in in Jan too? And Dunne who also has been a first team player until Coventry.

So that’s 2 windows where there has been a lot of upheaval.
im not sure we signed more players than our rivals..luton and barnsley are certainly double digits in terms of numbers signed..barnsely sold tom bradshaw in the summer..sold mocur to a rival in januray..and are still ahead of us
 
I recommend you get your f***ing facts right before you start spouting bollocks.
I recommend you do too.
The whole way throughout this thread I have maintained that there is more to it that “we spent some money so we should win” and so far I’ve proven my point.

That comparison is bollocks.

You can only compare when teams are relegated.

Liverpool being weakened in the same league is not the same as us selling Championship level players upon entering League 1.

If you had half a team and spent way more than any other team can afford there is a more than acceptable opinion that that team should be able to perform to the highest standards of League 1.
Almost all of our team, certainly more than half, were brought in this year.

im not sure we signed more players than our rivals..luton and barnsley are certainly double digits in terms of numbers signed..barnsely sold tom bradshaw in the summer..sold mocur to a rival in januray..and are still ahead of us
We did, by a large margin. See my other posts.
 
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The other teams weren't in a a position of having to get 15 players out the door and 15 players in, right up until the last minute of the window.

We need to judge them on what the team looks like after this summer window.

I think the Grigg signing has undone a lot of the decent recruitment of last summer.
 
That comparison is bollocks.

You can only compare when teams are relegated.

Liverpool being weakened in the same league is not the same as us selling Championship level players upon entering League 1.

If you had half a team and spent way more than any other team can afford there is a more than acceptable opinion that that team should be able to perform to the highest standards of League 1.
1/2 a team?
Mcgeady, catts, Honeyman. Matthews at a push.

Barnsley have their back 5 the same as last year, and Moore and Thiam. Got rid of a lot less and needed less change and recruitment. We had one of our most significant players leave half way through the season.

Going from what you say, us and Barnsley should be performing to the highest standards, which we both are.
Just a Shame we had the anomoly of Luton Town this season who have gone from strength to strength and kept their winning mentality from last season. It happens.

im not sure we signed more players than our rivals..luton and barnsley are certainly double digits in terms of numbers signed..barnsely sold tom bradshaw in the summer..sold mocur to a rival in januray..and are still ahead of us
See above. Compare our teams this season to when we played Barnsley last season. We've had to make so much more significant change. Other teams have brought in ones for thr future, or players to be on the periphery . We had to make massive changes. We spent a lot and had a biggish budget, but you have to factor in things like played gelling and injuries. You have to be pragmatic and if Barnsley finish above us it will be by a slender margin. Its no massive shock or sleight on us if this is the case
 
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