For the money we have spent

It's not a silly argument at all. It's completely sensible argument. In fact it's blatantly obvious.

Lets pretend we had a team of cars instead of players. If I have a team of 11 2018 top spec Aston Martins, and my mate has ten 2018 top spec Mercedes cars. At the end of the year,I can't afford all my cars, so I sell 9 Aston Martins, for £19.79M to relieve some of the debts I'd accrued and replace with 9 much cheaper 2015 Skoda's spending £3,870,00. My mate doesn't spend anything because he already has all his cars. Does this mean that MY squad squad of cars is better than his because I spent £3,870,000 and he spent nothing?

It's completely irrelevant.

It’s a silly argument...you totally disregard of the current squad compared to the rest of the league. Then factor in the current value can’t string 3 passes together.

Not just summer but also January as well.

We’ve spent double what the rest of the league has spent. It would take someone spending £2 billion in the Premier League to achieve that. Imagine the outcry if that team then finished 4th.

Perspective!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You've missed the point. I'm not comparing Ross to Pep, far from it. It's a classical 'argumentum a fortiori'.

i.e. if it took the great Guardiola two seasons to rebuild an already regular Champions League side with all the riches at his disposal, then it is unreasonable to expect the more humbler Ross to do it in one.

It’s a stretch, a massive stretch to make that comparison. There’s no way Pep spent more than all the PL teams combined. He also didn’t have his team playing Tony Pulis long ball his first season and suddenly got them playing the best football in the League the next. I don’t see any signs that if we’re promoted, the football is suddenly straightened out.
 
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Portsmouth didn’t need to sell anybody, they improved their team by £149K, we worsened ours by £16M.

Its a lot harder to gel anew team and change morale vs continue success from previous season like pompey and luton- watch lincoln do well next season spending nowt- the money spent on grigg was disruptive vs keeping maja and spending nowt
 
Its a lot harder to gel anew team and change morale vs continue success from previous season like pompey and luton- watch lincoln do well next season spending nowt- the money spent on grigg was disruptive vs keeping maja and spending nowt
I agree mate, there are loads of variables to consider. I was just annoyed at the very simplistic “we’ve spent some money so should win” view that loads were throwing around as it’s so short sighted.
 
I agree mate, there are loads of variables to consider. I was just annoyed at the very simplistic “we’ve spent some money so should win” view that loads were throwing around as it’s so short sighted.

Very simplistic ”we’ve spent some money so should win” ???

We didn’t just spend “some money”....we spent more than the whole league combined!! Add in we have the most experience in the league with Oviedo, Cattermole, Gooch, McGeady, Honeyman and Leadbitter...if this was the mags, they would be getting rinsed by us!
 
When did it happen that managers were under so much insane pressure ? I'm sure when I was a kid it was rare that they didn't get at least 3yrs, it always seemed to be canny big news that someone had sacked their manager. Now it's as common as asking someone the time. They haven't won for 6 games, fuckin hell must be time for him to go surely..... It's nuts I think.
 
So if Southampton lose every player in their squat at the end of the season, but they spend £50m buying an entirely new squad you think that they should be a shoe in for promotion. Even though they have one of the lowest average player values in the league, because they spent more than anyone else they should be promoted?


Honestly I didn’t really pay any attention to it so I don’t know what they spent and what they sold.


But someone thought they were better than the players we bought, otherwise they’d have taken the players we bought instead and saved themselves £16m


How can you possibly argue it’s out of context?! You’re ignoring half of the data!
players can do better in other leagues and with better attitudes. over £25m went out of safc since the summer on footballers..that somewhere like 21m of that is payong for playwers signbed by previous regimes doesnt alter that..

Well they sold about 14 players for £90m (including their most talented players on paper), brought in about 20 players for £55m, and like us, kept a few of their players that took them down, but big upheaval and had a 'net spend' of around -£35m, yet still won the league. So similar to your Southampton example above and in many cases, similar to Ross' situation here.
ross situtation was impacted by the fact that he got to keep aarguably all the good players..and lose either unproven (asoro) or shit players..

we were the only side in the division who had to buy a whole new team. It's a difficult job pulling a brand new team together
luton signed more than eleven players..
this manager inheirted the best player in this league (mcgeady) the best streiker in it (maja)
 
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I don’t think you’ll find a person on the planet that would argue Cattermole is worth his £40k per week :lol:
no he isnt..but he is worth his place in the team in league one-wouldstart for every other team in this division...and JR inheriuted him.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You've missed the point. I'm not comparing Ross to Pep, far from it. It's a classical 'argumentum a fortiori'.

i.e. if it took the great Guardiola two seasons to rebuild an already regular Champions League side with all the riches at his disposal, then it is unreasonable to expect the more humbler Ross to do it in one.
ross had riches at his dispodsal compared with evety other team.
blackburn didnt and went up last year-wigan didnt.
 
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I can see both arguments to this. We wouldn't have spent as much as we have unless we had sold so many players so that has to factor in, on the other hand there's isn't another team in the league that had £16m worth of 'talent' to sell in the first place so our net spend is always going to be far less. We should be winning the league with the squad we have but it does take time to build and we have had a turbulent few years.
 
Lads, can we get a little perspective here? Since we drew yesterday I people have been complaining that we aren't good enough for the money we have spent on almost every thread. The thing is, you're only telling half the story. We spent nearly £4M because we sold nearly £20M, which is over £16M worth of 'talent' leaving the club more than the next closest team.

I understand that you're disappointed, we all are. but please stop using the money we have spent as a stick to beat the club with.

Team - Money Out - Money In - Net Spend

Portsmouth £149,000 £0 £149,000
Burton £0 £0 £0
Shrewsbury £0 £0 £0
Plymouth £0 £0 £0
Southend £0 £0 £0
Blackpool £0 £0 £0
Fleetwood £0 £0 £0
Doncaster £0 £0 £0
Oxford £0 £0 £0
Gillingham £0 £0 £0
Wimbledon £0 £0 £0
Walsall £0 £0 £0
Luton £0 £0 £0
wycombe £0 £0 £0
Rochdale £0 £149,000 -£149,000
Charlton £0 £430,000 -£430,000
Bradford £0 £608,000 -£608,000
Bristol £0 £756,000 -£756,000
Barnsley £594,000 £1,670,000 -£1,076,000
Coventry £0 £1,220,000 -£1,220,000
Scunthorpe £0 £1,460,000 -£1,460,000
Accrington £0 £1,620,000 -£1,620,000
Peterborough £648,000 £3,330,000 -£2,682,000
Sunderland £3,870,000 £19,790,000 -£15,920,000



Source: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/league-one/transfers/wettbewerb/GB3
I hope the likes of Sima, Mag In Peace and What A Waster don't read this we slated the Mags over shite like this.

When they got relegated Benitez more or less had to rebuild a new team. A bit like ourselves. We went on that they should win the league because they've spend £57m. We never said that 'They've spend £57m on 12 players but they had too. They also lost about 25 players, 12 who were regulars in the first team squad. The also brought in £87m in transfers so the is a net spending of plus £30m.

Why is this any different?
 
Very simplistic ”we’ve spent some money so should win” ???

We didn’t just spend “some money”....we spent more than the whole league combined!! Add in we have the most experience in the league with Oviedo, Cattermole, Gooch, McGeady, Honeyman and Leadbitter...if this was the mags, they would be getting rinsed by us!
Just shows how overated our older players are
 
So if Southampton lose every player in their squat at the end of the season, but they spend £50m buying an entirely new squad you think that they should be a shoe in for promotion. Even though they have one of the lowest average player values in the league, because they spent more than anyone else they should be promoted?


Honestly I didn’t really pay any attention to it so I don’t know what they spent and what they sold.


But someone thought they were better than the players we bought, otherwise they’d have taken the players we bought instead and saved themselves £16m


How can you possibly argue it’s out of context?! You’re ignoring half of the data!

Not at all, it's not relevant to our predicament. We bought a shit tonne of expensive flops which we are trying to dispense for way less than we paid for them, of course we have a negative net spend. It may even be marginally relevant next season, but net spend is essentially just a sum of the players we wanted minus the players we didnt want, so how much we recouped is not relevant to our form / leave position etc etc, in my opinion. I've not ignored it, I've acknowledged its existence but found it not to be relevant to our current predicament.

mcgeady and honeyman will be in the cha,po next year-regardless of whether safc get promoted.

They'll be in El Chapo, filthy...
 
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I can see both arguments to this. We wouldn't have spent as much as we have unless we had sold so many players so that has to factor in, on the other hand there's isn't another team in the league that had £16m worth of 'talent' to sell in the first place so our net spend is always going to be far less. We should be winning the league with the squad we have but it does take time to build and we have had a turbulent few years.
What you’re saying is kinda my point, although I’ve been side tracked into a couple of squabbles that make me sound like I think we’re over achieving because I was contrary to someone who thinks we should have done better.

I was sick of people saying we should do better for the money we have spent, when they weren’t factoring in any of the other circumstances. Literally just “we have spent £3m so should walk the league” which in my eyes is simplistic and unfair. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a club go through such an upheaval as ours this summer. Half the playing squad gone. The entire back room and academy coaching team gone. Even the board has been replaced.
We basically held on to about 15 players, and only 2 or 3 of them played regular for us in the last couple of seasons.
 
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What you’re saying is kinda my point, although I’ve been side tracked into a couple of squabbles that make me sound like I think we’re over achieving because I was contrary to someone who thinks we should have done better.

I was sick of people saying we should do better for the money we have spent, when they weren’t factoring in any of the other circumstances. Literally just “we have spent £3m so should walk the league” which in my eyes is simplistic and unfair. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a club go through such an upheaval as ours this summer. Half the playing squad gone. The entire back room and academy coaching team gone. Even the board has been replaced.
We basically held on to about 15 players, and only 2 or 3 of them played regular for us in the last couple of seasons.
luton portsmouth and barnsley signed more new players than us.
 

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