Boris Johnson faces inquiry over racist comments

He’s a buffoon but what he said is only what most people think and it isnt islamophobic
What sense is there in folk walking around like the Lone Ranger or wearing a sack on your head with two eye holes

It is islamaphobic, the point is that the majority of people in England hold islamaphobic opinions.

This is just another drip drip drip into the pool of dehumanisation.
 


But you want to tell them what they can or can’t do? Isn’t that treating them as second class citizens?

Like I said earlier, there are other ways to deal with oppression of women than taking more of their rights away.
Dressing them up so they're near invisible is much worse. I think they have right to be seen and other people have the right to see who you're talking to. We tell everyone what they can and can't do and you want to too.

Indeed. So why is one choice better than the other? Why is one man women what they can’t wear better than another telling women what they can’t wear?
Come again
 
He's a slimy cretin who will do anything to advance his career. His brexit stance is going tits up for him and he comes out with this. It's calculated, he knows exactly the reaction it will get and the audience it plays to.
I think he has looked at how thing panned out for Trump with his methods to get into power and thought 'I'm having a bit of that approach'.
 
Bikini? Which high street is this?


Bu that's the entire point. You're not even f***ing attempting to address the oppression of women at all. You're simply replacing one type of oppression with another type. Because you think you know what's best for women.

You'll notice I've not commented on whether I think the burkha is right or wrong, or whether I think it's oppressive. Because that's another argument. This is about men saying they know what's best for women and telling them what they can wear. ON BOTH SIDES.


Exactly. There are different ways of tackling oppression of women in Asian and Islamic communities. But they're longer term, they are mainly about education and inclusion, and they don't get arseholes column inches.

I am addressing the oppression - by agreeing we should ban the burka.

I wholly and entirely reject your quite frankly ridiculous suggestion that banning the burka is in any way equivalent to conservative Islam.

If you’d rather Islam continues oppressing women then you go ahead and pick fights with your allies because they’re not ideologically pure.

Islam won’t change so we either accept women are free to wear the burka at the cost of allowing women to be oppressed by the burka, or we free women from the burka at the cost of not allowing those who choose it to wear it.
 
I am addressing the oppression - by agreeing we should ban the burka.

I wholly and entirely reject your quite frankly ridiculous suggestion that banning the burka is in any way equivalent to conservative Islam.

If you’d rather Islam continues oppressing women then you go ahead and pick fights with your allies because they’re not ideologically pure.

Islam won’t change so we either accept women are free to wear the burka at the cost of allowing women to be oppressed by the burka, or we free women from the burka at the cost of not allowing those who choose it to wear it.
Frijj,

I've liked 2 of your posts in a year. This is not good enough. Please can we have a row on the next topic?

Thanks
Ross
xx
 
Dressing them up so they're near invisible is much worse. I think they have right to be seen and other people have the right to see who you're talking to. We tell everyone what they can and can't do and you want to too.


Come again
You’re basically saying non-Muslim men can tell a woman she can’t wear a burka, because it’s not okay for a Muslim man to tell a woman she can’t wear western clothes. It’s all the same. Telling women what to wear in order to make them “free”.

I am addressing the oppression - by agreeing we should ban the burka.

I wholly and entirely reject your quite frankly ridiculous suggestion that banning the burka is in any way equivalent to conservative Islam.

If you’d rather Islam continues oppressing women then you go ahead and pick fights with your allies because they’re not ideologically pure.

Islam won’t change so we either accept women are free to wear the burka at the cost of allowing women to be oppressed by the burka, or we free women from the burka at the cost of not allowing those who choose it to wear it.
This isn’t an argument about Islam or whether Islam will change.

Not all Muslim wear the burka. Ergo, Islam does not tell women to wear the burka.

This is about certain sections of Islamic society telling women what they can and can’t wear, versus westerners telling women what they can and can’t wear. Why is it better that you tell a woman what she can wear wear rather than a Muslim man?

I am addressing the oppression - by agreeing we should ban the burka.

I wholly and entirely reject your quite frankly ridiculous suggestion that banning the burka is in any way equivalent to conservative Islam.

If you’d rather Islam continues oppressing women then you go ahead and pick fights with your allies because they’re not ideologically pure.

Islam won’t change so we either accept women are free to wear the burka at the cost of allowing women to be oppressed by the burka, or we free women from the burka at the cost of not allowing those who choose it to wear it.
You want to free women by telling them they have to dress the way you think they should.

Reminds me of Team America. Freedom is the only way.
 
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You’re basically saying non-Muslim men can tell a woman she can’t wear a burka, because it’s not okay for a Muslim man to tell a woman she can’t wear western clothes. It’s all the same. Telling women what to wear in order to make them “free”.
You are utterly correct. It is pointless banning it and it's up to the women to extricate themselves from the yoke of male oppression because there is fuck all we can do about it.
I'm just surprised that liberals tolerate such behaviour in a modern society like the UK.
 
Very true. And what a way to level the playing field that must be.
However, the way I see it, it's their choice to wear it and as such, if they enter a building where face coverings aren't permitted, they can take it off.

That's fair enough isn't it?

I don't care either way, I feel no threat whatsoever.
 
Here’s an example for you Frijj pet.

We could say women who get cosmetic surgery do it because they are pressurised by society into looking a certain way. Whether they realise it or not, even if they say they want it for themselves, we could argue that it’s really society making them feel shit about their bodies.

We could ban cosmetic surgery. We’d be doing it for their own good because they don’t need it. They should be happy with the face or tits they have. We’d be freeing them from themselves.

Or we could work harder to teach your women that their worth is about more than whether they have huge boobs or a perfect nose, and help them feel more comfortable in their own bodies. Even if their friends and boyfriends tell them otherwise and expect otherwise.

(And no, I’m not saying a boob job is the same as covering your face, I’m just pointing out that there are two sides to this kind of argument and that there are other ways to tackle issues of women feeling pressured to conform to whatever their own cultures tell them they should do)

You are utterly correct. It is pointless banning it and it's up to the women to extricate themselves from the yoke of male oppression because there is fuck all we can do about it.
I'm just surprised that liberals tolerate such behaviour in a modern society like the UK.
But not banning the burka isn’t the same as saying “and let’s not address oppression in islam”. I’ve already said it should be tackled in other ways than banning clothing.
 
You’re basically saying non-Muslim men can tell a woman she can’t wear a burka, because it’s not okay for a Muslim man to tell a woman she can’t wear western clothes. It’s all the same. Telling women what to wear in order to make them “free”.


This isn’t an argument about Islam or whether Islam will change.

Not all Muslim wear the burka. Ergo, Islam does not tell women to wear the burka.

This is about certain sections of Islamic society telling women what they can and can’t wear, versus westerners telling women what they can and can’t wear. Why is it better that you tell a woman what she can wear wear rather than a Muslim man?
I don't care what religion you do and don't believe in. This has nothing to do with it. The government and society decide what the laws of the land are.

The Danes have decided that you can't wear one specific item. They are not dictating what you can must wear. You can wear any of the other billion clothing items. Your choice is limited by 0.00000000000001%. You also can't walk around naked. In some countries you can't wear a swastika. Most people don't want to wear it and some people do. Are you ok with taking away the rights of women who want to wear a swastika or walk around naked?
 
You’re basically saying non-Muslim men can tell a woman she can’t wear a burka, because it’s not okay for a Muslim man to tell a woman she can’t wear western clothes. It’s all the same. Telling women what to wear in order to make them “free”.


This isn’t an argument about Islam or whether Islam will change.

Not all Muslim wear the burka. Ergo, Islam does not tell women to wear the burka.

This is about certain sections of Islamic society telling women what they can and can’t wear, versus westerners telling women what they can and can’t wear. Why is it better that you tell a woman what she can wear wear rather than a Muslim man?


You want to free women by telling them they have to dress the way you think they should.

Reminds me of Team America. Freedom is the only way.

I’m a realist. Nobody is free to wear what they want, but I’d love for all women to be able to wear what we as a liberal western society deem to be acceptable.

That isn’t possible when you have women forced to wear a burka by the conservative version of Islam that dominates their life.

The best possible solution for now is to ban the burka. Yes, it’s telling women what to wear, but to a infinitely smaller degree:

Conservative Islam

What can women wear:

Burka

What women can’t wear:

anything else

Ideal Liberal Western democracy

What can women wear:

Loads of things

What women can’t wear:

Burka
 
I’m a realist. Nobody is free to wear what they want, but I’d love for all women to be able to wear what we as a liberal western society deem to be acceptable.

That isn’t possible when you have women forced to wear a burka by the conservative version of Islam that dominates their life.

The best possible solution for now is to ban the burka. Yes, it’s telling women what to wear, but to a infinitely smaller degree:

Conservative Islam

What can women wear:

Burka

What women can’t wear:

anything else

Ideal Liberal Western democracy

What can women wear:

Loads of things

What women can’t wear:

Burka
Are you reading my posts over my shoulder or summit?
 
You’re basically saying non-Muslim men can tell a woman she can’t wear a burka, because it’s not okay for a Muslim man to tell a woman she can’t wear western clothes. It’s all the same. Telling women what to wear in order to make them “free”.


This isn’t an argument about Islam or whether Islam will change.

Not all Muslim wear the burka. Ergo, Islam does not tell women to wear the burka.

This is about certain sections of Islamic society telling women what they can and can’t wear, versus westerners telling women what they can and can’t wear. Why is it better that you tell a woman what she can wear wear rather than a Muslim man?


You want to free women by telling them they have to dress the way you think they should.

Reminds me of Team America. Freedom is the only way.
What a woman wears should be her own individual choice and not that of any man unless it is work related and applicable to that job.
 

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