• The first stage of the forum upgrades has now been completed but they remain in a degraded state and are still being worked on. Normal posting/reading should now be possible.
    Please read this thread for more details.
    New user registrations are currently disabled.

MP takes on Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley over his 'exploitation' of the club

Status
Not open for further replies.

jaxaxe said:
Why ?

Football is a business. And in that business, Mike Ashley bought a debt-laden middling company and turned it around to become more self-sustaining.

To compete at the level the Geordie Nayshun want Newcastle to be at, you need the resources of a monopoly gas supplier for a continent, or an oil-rich nation state. That is the problem, not Rafa's transfer budget.
Click to expand...

You think that clubs don't deserve protection from the like of the Oystons and the nutter at Leyton Orient?
 
Cat 3 said:
I know the family. I know they want the club to do well. The problem is MA is a smart business man football is difficult business. If you spend £100m nufc will still be in a gang of 14 clubs whose first priority is to avoid relegation. Talk of established top 10 is silly - there is no top 10, there is 6 and 14. Burnley finished 7th they are 3/1 to go down. Stoke finished 10th and two seasons later were relegated.

The two provincial clubs clubs who made a big push to get into the elite in the last 15 years were leeds and villa - they both ended up bust and have had change ownership multiple times. To make a real quantum difference at Nufc he would require £500m and MA just does not have that.

Arguably MA gets free advertising out of nufc but he charges no interest on the loans - these pretty much cancel each other out. He does not use it as a cash cow and the club has permission to invest all its cash flows. MA is a willing seller and the unpalatable facts are no one with deep pockets wanted it. Its a sound club - no external debt - but just not what the fans what it to be.
Click to expand...

Can this top 6 not become a top 8 (including Everton)? Yes, it will take investment to be regularly going through the pseudo-ceiling of 6th but Arsenal are an unknown quantity this year and could drop out (leaving an established top 5) with poor management.

We made strides into the elite too between 2001 and 2003 after Leeds did but poor decisions by Freddy Shepherd (summer of 2003) set in motion events that lost us ground massively. At the end of the 2003-04 season we finished just below Liverpool who appointed Benitez in the close season and we appointed Souness shortly after the start of the season. Both clubs went in completely different directions after that.

You can never measure how much extra revenue Mike Ashley's advertising of Sports Direct inside the ground has but the exposure he gets every second week in hundreds of millions of homes worldwide is worth an absolute fortune as a base cost. Sports Direct's revenue has grown from £950m in 2007 (when he took over) to over £3bn for 2017. Again, you can't measure how much of that is due to the visual space he has in people's homes but it's a significant increase and one that he wouldn't have been able to take without using Newcastle United as a vehicle. It's this growth that leads me to think that, although what he says publically, unless he gets a ridiculous offer he has no intention of selling the club. Even if he did it wouldn't be a clean break and he'd push for a lot of caveats on the commercial side (keeping advertising in the stadium and running the club shop as a subsidiary of Sports Direct are two that spring to mind).
 
Sima said:
Can this top 6 not become a top 8 (including Everton)? Yes, it will take investment to be regularly going through the pseudo-ceiling of 6th but Arsenal are an unknown quantity this year and could drop out (leaving an established top 5) with poor management.

We made strides into the elite too between 2001 and 2003 after Leeds did but poor decisions by Freddy Shepherd (summer of 2003) set in motion events that lost us ground massively. At the end of the 2003-04 season we finished just below Liverpool who appointed Benitez in the close season and we appointed Souness shortly after the start of the season. Both clubs went in completely different directions after that.

You can never measure how much extra revenue Mike Ashley's advertising of Sports Direct inside the ground has but the exposure he gets every second week in hundreds of millions of homes worldwide is worth an absolute fortune as a base cost. Sports Direct's revenue has grown from £950m in 2007 (when he took over) to over £3bn for 2017. Again, you can't measure how much of that is due to the visual space he has in people's homes but it's a significant increase and one that he wouldn't have been able to take without using Newcastle United as a vehicle. It's this growth that leads me to think that, although what he says publically, unless he gets a ridiculous offer he has no intention of selling the club. Even if he did it wouldn't be a clean break and he'd push for a lot of caveats on the commercial side (keeping advertising in the stadium and running the club shop as a subsidiary of Sports Direct are two that spring to mind).
Click to expand...
 
Sima said:
They’ve made that ‘provision’ but they haven’t put the ‘cash’ to one side to account for it?
Click to expand...

Cash flow is what it says it is - money in less money out during the accounting period. A provision is recognising an expense (or probable expense) in one accounting period, when the associated cash flow will take place in a future one. The book entries are to create a wage expense, and a creditor (the provision) to recognise the obligation to meet that expense in the future. It's what's know as "accruals accounting", which basically means putting costs into the accounting period to which they belong.
 
Sima said:
Can this top 6 not become a top 8 (including Everton)? Yes, it will take investment to be regularly going through the pseudo-ceiling of 6th but Arsenal are an unknown quantity this year and could drop out (leaving an established top 5) with poor management.

We made strides into the elite too between 2001 and 2003 after Leeds did but poor decisions by Freddy Shepherd (summer of 2003) set in motion events that lost us ground massively. At the end of the 2003-04 season we finished just below Liverpool who appointed Benitez in the close season and we appointed Souness shortly after the start of the season. Both clubs went in completely different directions after that.

You can never measure how much extra revenue Mike Ashley's advertising of Sports Direct inside the ground has but the exposure he gets every second week in hundreds of millions of homes worldwide is worth an absolute fortune as a base cost. Sports Direct's revenue has grown from £950m in 2007 (when he took over) to over £3bn for 2017. Again, you can't measure how much of that is due to the visual space he has in people's homes but it's a significant increase and one that he wouldn't have been able to take without using Newcastle United as a vehicle. It's this growth that leads me to think that, although what he says publically, unless he gets a ridiculous offer he has no intention of selling the club. Even if he did it wouldn't be a clean break and he'd push for a lot of caveats on the commercial side (keeping advertising in the stadium and running the club shop as a subsidiary of Sports Direct are two that spring to mind).
Click to expand...

The top 8 doesn't work. Teams either run a CL cost base and can attract CL players or they can't. It is already tricky with a top 6 - Arsenal are starting to fall off the pace and arguably Tottenham are just enjoying a golden period of cheap homegrown players. There is no major incremental revenue for finishing 7th or 8th. Everton blurted 150m last year and had to send for big sam to stay up.

Lets be honest freddy Shepherd had nufc living being their means - debt, talking sponsorship revenue up front - Ashley bailed out the Hall/Shepherd set up.

As for advertising there is a pretty established rate for the sort of adverting he gets at nufc - a maximum of £5m. He could realistically charge more in interest in the loans he has given nufc.

From what i hear he would love to sell - he went into it for the enjoyment - but he hasn't had a lot of that recently. Although, I hear his dad goes every week and they are big supporters. The deal fell apart with AS because she did not have the money. She basically wanted it for a bargain and was trying to raise money on the back of it. You had a lucky escape with Amanda - better the devilyou know

Grumpy Old Man said:
You think that clubs don't deserve protection from the like of the Oystons and the nutter at Leyton Orient?
Click to expand...

I know MA and MA is no Owen Oyston in any way shape or form . Poor analogy
 
Last edited:
Sima said:
Why put it in if it hasn't been budgeted for? Is there going to be a hole in next year's accounts for these contracts if the players have moved on (one of which already has)? The provision is already there on an annual basis via the length of the contracts and can be tied to cash flow that way.

It's been put as a full cost in this years accounts, you can't do that without it affecting your end of year balance (cash at bank).
Click to expand...

Yes, you can. That's why creditors exist at all. Same of the revenue side - if you bill someone on credit terms, you recognise that sale then. If they haven't paid at the year end, you have a debtor, not cash. If sales and costs are the heads side of a coin, debtors and creditors are the tail. When you get the cash in or pay it out, it simply clears the debtor or creditor balance.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
You think that clubs don't deserve protection from the like of the Oystons and the nutter at Leyton Orient?
Click to expand...
Depends on what you mean by a club.

If you mean the business enterprise that owns or rents a stadium, owns players contracts and sells match tickets and merch, then it is a business. Much as we would like to, it can hardly be protected from these types of owner.

If you are talking about the thing which has us as supporters, and has a place in our heart and our community, then the ownership model is wrong. When the game took the Murdoch shilling, it lost a lot of its soul.
 
Cat 3 said:
The top 8 doesn't work. Teams either run a CL cost base and can attract CL players or they can't. It is already tricky with a top 6 - Arsenal are starting to fall off the pace and arguably Tottenham are just enjoying a golden period of cheap homegrown players. There is no major incremental revenue for finishing 7th or 8th. Everton blurted 150m last year and had to send for big sam to stay up.

Lets be honest freddy Shepherd had nufc living being their means - debt, talking sponsorship revenue up front - Ashley bailed out the Hall/Shepherd set up.

As for advertising there is a pretty established rate for the sort of adverting he gets at nufc - a maximum of £5m. He could realistically charge more in interest in the loans he has given nufc.

From what i hear he would love to sell - he went into it for the enjoyment - but he hasn't had a lot of that recently. Although, I hear his dad goes every week and they are big supporters. The deal fell apart with AS because she did not have the money. She basically wanted it for a bargain and was trying to raise money on the back of it. You had a lucky escape with Amanda - better the devilyou know



I know MA and MA is no Owen Oyston in any way shape or form . Poor analogy
Click to expand...

That's the point I was making originally. The MP has a point in suggesting that clubs may need some protection from unscrupulous owners. Where she's way off beam is suggesting that Mike Ashley is an example - he's actually very much a responsible owner.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
That's the point I was making originally. The MP has a point in suggesting that clubs may need some protection from unscrupulous owners. Where she's way off beam is suggesting that Mike Ashley is an example - he's actually very much a responsible owner.
Click to expand...

The MP's definition of unscrupulous appears to be he 'wont buy Rafa a new centre forward' which to me trivialises a debate over bad owners and the role of parliament.

There is a further irony with nufc - if they are such a big club why do they need mike to buy players and fund their debts - surely the cash flow of the club could do it.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Yes, you can. That's why creditors exist at all. Same of the revenue side - if you bill someone on credit terms, you recognise that sale then. If they haven't paid at the year end, you have a debtor, not cash. If sales and costs are the heads side of a coin, debtors and creditors are the tail. When you get the cash in or pay it out, it simply clears the debtor or creditor balance.
Click to expand...

He's had an absolute nightmare this morning :lol:
 
Cat 3 said:
The top 8 doesn't work. Teams either run a CL cost base and can attract CL players or they can't. It is already tricky with a top 6 - Arsenal are starting to fall off the pace and arguably Tottenham are just enjoying a golden period of cheap homegrown players. There is no major incremental revenue for finishing 7th or 8th. Everton blurted 150m last year and had to send for big sam to stay up.

Lets be honest freddy Shepherd had nufc living being their means - debt, talking sponsorship revenue up front - Ashley bailed out the Hall/Shepherd set up.

As for advertising there is a pretty established rate for the sort of adverting he gets at nufc - a maximum of £5m. He could realistically charge more in interest in the loans he has given nufc.

From what i hear he would love to sell - he went into it for the enjoyment - but he hasn't had a lot of that recently. Although, I hear his dad goes every week and they are big supporters. The deal fell apart with AS because she did not have the money. She basically wanted it for a bargain and was trying to raise money on the back of it. You had a lucky escape with Amanda - better the devilyou know



I know MA and MA is no Owen Oyston in any way shape or form . Poor analogy
Click to expand...
How old is his Dad by the way? Must be a fair age given Ashley is no spring chicken.
 
What A Waster said:
He gambles with it all the time. Sometimes he's lucky sometimes not.
Here's some examples.
15/16 McClaren appointed, a gamble in itself, around £60m spent. Bottom 3 from the end of august apart from 2 weeks in December. Does he sack him? Gambles on him turning it round, more money in January on Shelvey, Townsend, Saivet and Doumbia on loan. Results don't improve. 3 week break between games for fa cup 5th round weekend, league cup final and international break. Return from the break, get humped at home to Bournemouth, then sacks him in March. Employs Benitez with time to spare and relegation follows.
Click to expand...

Tidied, you missed a bit out.
 

i know. not a big deal just fine line about passing on personal details of people i know. i answered but then thought better of it so deleted
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top