People with degrees that are a bit thick really

I blame smartphones.

Everything is autocorrected these days giving people no reason to practise their grammar etc.

I've found it myself, used to be really good with punctuation / grammer a few years ago mind, now that i'm handing in assignment for uni I am pretty shocked at how my standards have fallen.

It's just the opposite with my phone. It regularly converts "hell" and "well" to "he'll" and "we'll" regardless of the context of the rest of the sentence. It also converts correctly spelled words to different words or simply invents a new, meaningless, word altogether. The result is that I spend twice as much time checking my spelling.
 


It's just the opposite with my phone. It regularly converts "hell" and "well" to "he'll" and "we'll" regardless of the context of the rest of the sentence. It also converts correctly spelled words to different words or simply invents a new, meaningless, word altogether. The result is that I spend twice as much time checking my spelling.

ThAT'S sAMSUNG FOR YOU.
 
Just offererd to proof read a lad at work’s college assignment. He has a degree in automotive design, so should be pretty competent, I thought.

I thought wrong. I’m no English Professor but fuck me it looked like it was written by a child. Spelling, punctuation and grammar all over the shop. Different spellings of the same word (raiser/razor). Clunky sentence structure. I spent about 2 hours re-doing it for him.

What are they teaching kids these days when you can get a degree with a complete lack of English skills?
People with a degree are no more or less intelligent than those without. The only difference is that they have been motivated to do one and have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity. I found the work pretty easy but the fact I turned up and did the work is the biggest plus.
 
People with a degree are no more or less intelligent than those without. The only difference is that they have been motivated to do one and have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity. I found the work pretty easy but the fact I turned up and did the work is the biggest plus.

I would expect that on all measures of intelligence, the degree educated cohort would outperform the non-degree educated cohort, controlling for age and that.
 
You'd be surprised how allegedly highly qualified some people can be yet not have a clue.

I've told this story before, however, it's relevant to the above in that there's work out there that should have never been passed.

Way back whilst I was working for a certain ex-Poly in a place not too far from Sunderland (no, not Lord Rowell's place at the bottom of Chester Road), my colleges and I were expected to informally supervise the projects of M.Sc. students within the Engineering department. Most were from India and had allegedly passed a minimum standard of English to be able to able to study at an English University and start the course.

Their ideas of thorough, meticulous project work was to spend their project period working full time in the local call centres around Quorum and Cobalt Business Parks. When asked how they expected to fit in their project work, they responded "Don't worry, well manage it."

Yea, right.

1) One of my colleagues reported that one student's dissertation had largely been cut and paste from the Internet. It even included a passage where the "author" had sat, enjoying views of Lake Placid in the United States. He'd never been to the United States. At least the cutting and pasting at least ensured the standard of the "American" English.

2) I attempted to read one of the dissertations submitted. The English was more like a collection of random words rather than coherent sentences. One of my colleagues instructed me not to help him correct it, something I had no intention of doing. We'd been instructed to ensure the students were to "pass" (the inference being international student's money was more important than integrity and results), however, this dissertation was so incomprehensible it had to be failed. This caused an inquest with complaints from the student and his brother, which bore out our decision to fail him. He resat the following year and passed at the second attempt.

3) I helped also with the assessment of project oral presentations. As it happens, the two students I examined did better with their poster presentations, however, I was told to mark down the presentations to the minimum pass level by a senior lecturer as in his words, it was the "most they deserved'. For once, some honesty from a senior lecturer.

4) I found myself helping out a Thai colleague (and mate) who'd been given three days to sort out the English in his PhD thesis or be failed - he was approaching his four year limit. Once again, the English at times was at times more a collection of random words rather than coherent English. After a a weekend of proofreading for him, we supplied him with the proofed document and the cleaned-up English. He reacted "You've changed the meaning!!!". He did submit and was passed "with minor corrections". He's now considered a leading specialist back in Thailand in the field of renewable energy and wind turbine design.

Whilst he was a likeable lad, even our proof-reading was short of a pass without major correction. But then again, he was an international student. I suspect possibly his supervisor rewrote large sections of the thesis for him to ensure he'd pass, something I as a home grown student could not expect.

---------------

On the flip side of the coin, there were two really hard working, diligent Nigerian lads who passed the same M.Sc. with flying colours. We were informally spotting potential future Ph.D. students and recommended the two Nigerians to be considered due to their work ethic. Excellent presentation skills, little to no problems with their English and well capable of conducting original research with minimal supervision. However, both lads wanted to go back home to take up jobs in Nigeria.

Who went forward to take up Ph.D.s? Two of the Indian students who struggled to pass, including the one we had to fail.

FFS...

Did I mention these students were expected to have a minimum standard of English to be allowed to study in an English University?



He wrote in the first person as well as appalling use of the word "was"? I've always been told never to write a technical report in the first person.



When a student or recent graduate come on The Chase, you just know they're going to be among the worst performers. That includes even some teachers.

There is a lot to be said at times in favour of the school of life.



It's never been considered right to write reports, dissertations, theses or other top level document in the first person.

I've only ever come across one person at a higher level who asked why I never wrote in the first person.

You only use the first person in stories and novels.



I'd let him away with that one. How many times have you accessed this place via your mobile phone and predictive text has stepped in to correct you? How many times have you cocked up with the odd word typing a hurried message on here.



Fair comment. Our two most common verbs, "to have" and "two be", are highly irregular.

If a kid asks "Why do we say 'I was' and 'We were' when we can just use one word?", how do you really answer the question?

Because that is the accepted usage of standard English?

"Why?"

Because that is the way the English language has developed.

"Why?"

If the "Why?" question keeps being repeated, there is no ultimate answer even for the more knowledgeable linguists.



I've been told my repeated use of "actually", "basically" and "to be honest" are annoying. I even got cautioned about the use of "to be honest" after an agency interview, in that my use of it made me seem "dishonest".



I've jumped between academia and the real world. "Urgent" in academia is sort of in the next three weeks. In the real world, urgent can mean within the half hour. Switching your mindset between the two can take some doing and some people can't manage it.

On moving back into a University environment, I just wanted to crack on with the work being told I had a sizeable project in front of me and ended up producing twice as much data as I needed to. It actually proved to be a hindrance towards the end as I could not report all the data without confusing what I had to report, though the surplus data ended up being reported in extra papers.

Switching back the real world again saw me having to adjust back to focusing on the immediate issue, collecting only the data needed to answer a customer or supplier query and no more.
Chuff me beefy your lectures must have been a barrel of laughs.

Mind, I’ve had classmates from the sub continent both as a student in England and in America and I found it common that even with those who spoke flawless, accentless english like worr aa dee, (and not like Apu!) when I read their written work it was atrocious. Can’t explain how or why but it was surprising to me that it could be so poor when they spoke so well.

There were others (orientals mostly) who I have no idea how they got accepted but their spoken English was largely unintelligible and I count more than a few professors who were like this along with students. I made sure to avoid those professors like the plague when it came to choosing classes.
 
You see, this worries me. What you’re saying is that you can read a book or technical document with everything done properly, then completely disregard that and write any old shite you feel. You’re not learning from what you’re reading. Which would raise question marks about your ability to learn and adapt, to me. You might be great at maths but your big maths brain can’t bother iteslf to learn things that would make your written work better?

This reminds me of my ex. She would write the names of famous people/things and spell them wrong. When I questioned her she said she didn’t know how it was spelled. I pointed out that she must have read the names a million times, so how did she not know the correct spelling? She said she “just read them” but didn’t take an notice of the spelling. I find that utterly bizzare.

Microsoft sorts all that bollox out for me - written work ? where do you live, 1985 ?
 
A good reason why your not then. But that's a different argument about his job now being about writing reports, where I agree with you then.

Disregarding the obvious misuse of "your", are you pulling him up over failing to use the subjunctive? Not the greatest of crimes.

You'd be surprised how allegedly highly qualified some people can be yet not have a clue.

I've told this story before, however, it's relevant to the above in that there's work out there that should have never been passed.

Way back whilst I was working for a certain ex-Poly in a place not too far from Sunderland (no, not Lord Rowell's place at the bottom of Chester Road), my colleges and I were expected to informally supervise the projects of M.Sc. students within the Engineering department. Most were from India and had allegedly passed a minimum standard of English to be able to able to study at an English University and start the course.

Their ideas of thorough, meticulous project work was to spend their project period working full time in the local call centres around Quorum and Cobalt Business Parks. When asked how they expected to fit in their project work, they responded "Don't worry, well manage it."

Yea, right.

1) One of my colleagues reported that one student's dissertation had largely been cut and paste from the Internet. It even included a passage where the "author" had sat, enjoying views of Lake Placid in the United States. He'd never been to the United States. At least the cutting and pasting at least ensured the standard of the "American" English.

2) I attempted to read one of the dissertations submitted. The English was more like a collection of random words rather than coherent sentences. One of my colleagues instructed me not to help him correct it, something I had no intention of doing. We'd been instructed to ensure the students were to "pass" (the inference being international student's money was more important than integrity and results), however, this dissertation was so incomprehensible it had to be failed. This caused an inquest with complaints from the student and his brother, which bore out our decision to fail him. He resat the following year and passed at the second attempt.

3) I helped also with the assessment of project oral presentations. As it happens, the two students I examined did better with their poster presentations, however, I was told to mark down the presentations to the minimum pass level by a senior lecturer as in his words, it was the "most they deserved'. For once, some honesty from a senior lecturer.

4) I found myself helping out a Thai colleague (and mate) who'd been given three days to sort out the English in his PhD thesis or be failed - he was approaching his four year limit. Once again, the English at times was at times more a collection of random words rather than coherent English. After a a weekend of proofreading for him, we supplied him with the proofed document and the cleaned-up English. He reacted "You've changed the meaning!!!". He did submit and was passed "with minor corrections". He's now considered a leading specialist back in Thailand in the field of renewable energy and wind turbine design.

Whilst he was a likeable lad, even our proof-reading was short of a pass without major correction. But then again, he was an international student. I suspect possibly his supervisor rewrote large sections of the thesis for him to ensure he'd pass, something I as a home grown student could not expect.

---------------

On the flip side of the coin, there were two really hard working, diligent Nigerian lads who passed the same M.Sc. with flying colours. We were informally spotting potential future Ph.D. students and recommended the two Nigerians to be considered due to their work ethic. Excellent presentation skills, little to no problems with their English and well capable of conducting original research with minimal supervision. However, both lads wanted to go back home to take up jobs in Nigeria.

Who went forward to take up Ph.D.s? Two of the Indian students who struggled to pass, including the one we had to fail.

FFS...

Did I mention these students were expected to have a minimum standard of English to be allowed to study in an English University?



He wrote in the first person as well as appalling use of the word "was"? I've always been told never to write a technical report in the first person.



When a student or recent graduate come on The Chase, you just know they're going to be among the worst performers. That includes even some teachers.

There is a lot to be said at times in favour of the school of life.



It's never been considered right to write reports, dissertations, theses or other top level document in the first person.

I've only ever come across one person at a higher level who asked why I never wrote in the first person.

You only use the first person in stories and novels.



I'd let him away with that one. How many times have you accessed this place via your mobile phone and predictive text has stepped in to correct you? How many times have you cocked up with the odd word typing a hurried message on here.



Fair comment. Our two most common verbs, "to have" and "two be", are highly irregular.

If a kid asks "Why do we say 'I was' and 'We were' when we can just use one word?", how do you really answer the question?

Because that is the accepted usage of standard English?

"Why?"

Because that is the way the English language has developed.

"Why?"

If the "Why?" question keeps being repeated, there is no ultimate answer even for the more knowledgeable linguists.



I've been told my repeated use of "actually", "basically" and "to be honest" are annoying. I even got cautioned about the use of "to be honest" after an agency interview, in that my use of it made me seem "dishonest".



I've jumped between academia and the real world. "Urgent" in academia is sort of in the next three weeks. In the real world, urgent can mean within the half hour. Switching your mindset between the two can take some doing and some people can't manage it.

On moving back into a University environment, I just wanted to crack on with the work being told I had a sizeable project in front of me and ended up producing twice as much data as I needed to. It actually proved to be a hindrance towards the end as I could not report all the data without confusing what I had to report, though the surplus data ended up being reported in extra papers.

Switching back the real world again saw me having to adjust back to focusing on the immediate issue, collecting only the data needed to answer a customer or supplier query and no more.

Nice dissertation but you'll need to get the word count down.
 
Disregarding the obvious misuse of "your", are you pulling him up over failing to use the subjunctive? Not the greatest of crimes.



Nice dissertation but you'll need to get the word count down.

Tw*t!!! :lol:

That said, that's Unis. for you. There was no way of explaining what went on there succinctly.
 
Chuff me beefy your lectures must have been a barrel of laughs.

Mind, I’ve had classmates from the sub continent both as a student in England and in America and I found it common that even with those who spoke flawless, accentless english like worr aa dee, (and not like Apu!) when I read their written work it was atrocious. Can’t explain how or why but it was surprising to me that it could be so poor when they spoke so well.

There were others (orientals mostly) who I have no idea how they got accepted but their spoken English was largely unintelligible and I count more than a few professors who were like this along with students. I made sure to avoid those professors like the plague when it came to choosing classes.

I was research staff, not a lecturer. However, one knack I had was I was good at dealing with students on a one-to-one basis. Lecturing staff were thus happy to allow (and too overworked to also care) myself and others in our research group look after their students.

You've nailed on with your remarks about the standard of English, spoken and written. I found the Indian students who wrote unintelligible English at times well spoken too. Conversely, Chinese and Japanese students could be difficult to orally understand, but written English was a little more intelligible than the Indian students.

Other quirks included people from some parts of India were shaking their heads for yes and nodding for no. Also, the better English speakers among the Chinese and Japanese spoke English with a slight American accent.

Another dumb moment was when one of them somehow managed to flood the supposedly watertight electronics compartment of a precision saw with cutting lubricant. It cost us £2,000 to repair and I had a diplomatic word with his project supervisor that if he didn't know how to use the saw, he should ask for help. He denied it and Unis. being Unis., I let the matter drop rather than find the situation escalate out of all proportion through the grievance procedures (remembering he was an international student, hence big fees and Uni. reputation). His English was dodgy to say the least, so trying to explain basic equipment operation to him was probably pointless. But I know it was him.

One thing you can say about most English students (and to be fair some of the Indian students), is that if you caught them bang to rights and they knew it they would eventually put their hands up to it. With others, they could be okay most of the time, but wern't very good at accepting the blame and would even deny knowledge when they knew they'd been caught (east Asian or Arab cultures and loss of face?).

This even included one of the research staff, who we know "ignored" evidence that went contrary to his "findings". Considering he was looking at coatings on power station turbine blades, his "omission" could have potentially led to the catastrophic failure of a turbine blade in service. This data went to high impact journal publication. My immediate colleague / drinking buddy had the data that would have shown him to have "distorted" the findings, however, didn't want to know. My mate just wanted to leave for a new job with a minimum of fuss as he'd had enough of the place.

I look back at that period and just shake my head in disbelief. I wasn't perfect, however, there's a difference being a little naughty wanting to get to the pub on a Friday and wholesale distortion of facts to the point of being dangerous in order to feed your own reputation.

But @Tex, at least there was a cute Welsh bird to shag. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Chuff me beefy your lectures must have been a barrel of laughs.

Mind, I’ve had classmates from the sub continent both as a student in England and in America and I found it common that even with those who spoke flawless, accentless english like worr aa dee, (and not like Apu!) when I read their written work it was atrocious. Can’t explain how or why but it was surprising to me that it could be so poor when they spoke so well.

There were others (orientals mostly) who I have no idea how they got accepted but their spoken English was largely unintelligible and I count more than a few professors who were like this along with students. I made sure to avoid those professors like the plague when it came to choosing classes.
How are you with speaking and writing in their languages?
 

Back
Top