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Takeover talks not going great

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Hebdomad said:
There's 4 reasons why the 6th most expensively assembled team is bottom.

1. because the players have underperformed.

2. because we overpaid for those players in the first place

3. because the manager and coaching staff have been unable to motivate them

4. because the manager and coaching staff have been unable to fashion a tactical system to get results.

Thats how simple football is. 2 of those 4 factors are down to bad management.
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5. Because most of those players aren't playing for us

That's how simple your argument is.
 

KittenMittens said:
Because unlike you I understand context.
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If you want to use context, you should list all the transfer budgets of all championship clubs this season as we compete against all of them and not just the recently relegated clubs. If lack of investment is to blame for our relegation I expect to see we have spent the least money in the championship this season.
 
WHD said:
If you want to use context, you should list all the transfer budgets of all championship clubs this season as we compete against all of them and not just the recently relegated clubs. If lack of investment is to blame for our relegation I expect to see we have spent the least money in the championship this season.
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But again... context? If a team has been playing together for some time, in the same system, they get better. Even in the leap up a divisions, teams like Bournemouth, Brighton, Huddersfield and Burnley have been able to succeed in the Premier League because they had managers who had been with the squad a while and knew what the players were capable of.

Same applies to the teams in the bottom end of the Championship. Just because a team spends £0 or less than us, doesn't mean they didn't have a far better foundation to start with. Our expensive under-performers who aren't suitable for this league aren't just useless, they're an active hindrance. That's why it was even more important to spend money and reshape the squad for the Championship properly.

That's what parachute payments are there for too - to invest in an overhaul of the squad and absorb some of the costs of re-shaping the entire operation for a lower division with lower income and a different level of player. We've instead seen it ALL go to off-field stuff.
 
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KittenMittens said:
f***ing hell this is the stupidest post on this forum in history (and you'd set that bar low).

This year we spent 3% of what the average of clubs who went down over the last 2 years spent.

Villa £76m
Newcastle £57m
Middlesbrough £50m
Norwich £24m
Hull £18m
Sunderland £1.25m

Clubs that go down have parachute payments because inevitably, they have a bloated squad and Premier League infrastructures. In our case, we had a bunch of players who were past being effective in the Championship, let alone the Premier League. We compounded this in the summer by giving Grayson a fraction of what even the Hull manager got to try and reshape the squad.

You are completely wrong if you think we aren't going down because of a lack of investment. It dictates everything about the types of players who both stayed unnecessarily (O'Shea, Gibson, Jones etc) because Grayson needed bodies, and in turn it dictated that Coleman wasn't able to build a squad, but had to loan whoever was available for literal bodies.
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People who blame our managers for where we are are a reason why our owner has escaped blame for so long and consequently where we’ve ended up. Even Moyes had to sign eleven players for what our competitors spent on 2 or 3.
 
Hebdomad said:
There's 4 reasons why the 6th most expensively assembled team is bottom.

1. because the players have underperformed.

2. because we overpaid for those players in the first place

3. because the manager and coaching staff have been unable to motivate them

4. because the manager and coaching staff have been unable to fashion a tactical system to get results.

Thats how simple football is. 2 of those 4 factors are down to bad management.
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Or plain & simple the players are just utter shite & couldn't handle the championship
 
KittenMittens said:
f***ing hell this is the stupidest post on this forum in history (and you'd set that bar low).

This year we spent 3% of what the average of clubs who went down over the last 2 years spent.

Villa £76m
Newcastle £57m
Middlesbrough £50m
Norwich £24m
Hull £18m
Sunderland £1.25m

Clubs that go down have parachute payments because inevitably, they have a bloated squad and Premier League infrastructures. In our case, we had a bunch of players who were past being effective in the Championship, let alone the Premier League. We compounded this in the summer by giving Grayson a fraction of what even the Hull manager got to try and reshape the squad.

You are completely wrong if you think we aren't going down because of a lack of investment. It dictates everything about the types of players who both stayed unnecessarily (O'Shea, Gibson, Jones etc) because Grayson needed bodies, and in turn it dictated that Coleman wasn't able to build a squad, but had to loan whoever was available for literal bodies.
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But on the other hand, 5 of the XI yesterday cost over £20m - Love/McNair deal was around 5m, Oviedo/Gibson was widely quoted as 5 and 2m respectively, so that's 10m there. Kone 5m, and admittedly a long time ago, Cattermole for 6m. The lack of investment given to both Grayson and Coleman was obviously inexcusable and meant it was very hard to have a 'decent' season, but given 4 of those 5 were signed within 18 months of the start of this season, we should have been doing a lot better than we are. The likes of Burton, Barnsley and Bolton could only dream of having 4 of their XI costing £15 - finish above those 3 and we don't go down.
 
The Bridge Lad said:
But on the other hand, 5 of the XI yesterday cost over £20m - Love/McNair was around 5m, Oviedo/Gibson was widely quoted as 5 and 2m respectively, so that's 10m there. Kone 5m, and admittedly a long time ago, Cattermole for 6m. The lack of investment given to both Grayson and Coleman was obviously inexcusable and meant it was very hard to have a 'decent' season, but given 4 of those 5 were signed within 18 months of the start of this season, we should have been doing a lot better than we are. The likes of Burton, Barnsley and Bolton could only dream of having 4 of their XI costing £15 - finish above those 3 and we don't go down.
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Gibson was less than that but I take the point, I think you're right in one sense, that some of those players are decent Championship players.

For me, Kone, McNair and Oviedo have been good for us this season. As has McGeady (who we paid money for :o ). Of the others, Love has been poor, Cattermole until the last few games was a total liability, and Gibson... well...

When you come down it's harder than if you had a settled squad and invested £15m into it I think. You can make a net profit even, but you have to clear out the high earners who aren't suitable for the Championship, and you have to reinvest some of that money back into the squad.

We did the former but not the latter. Recipe for disaster, and not trying to rectify it in January is probably the worst part, because they'd seen the results of lack of investment and still carried on with it.
 
KittenMittens said:
Gibson was less than that but I take the point, I think you're right in one sense, that some of those players are decent Championship players.

For me, Kone, McNair and Oviedo have been good for us this season. As has McGeady (who we paid money for :eek: ). Of the others, Love has been poor, Cattermole until the last few games was a total liability, and Gibson... well...

When you come down it's harder than if you had a settled squad and invested £15m into it I think. You can make a net profit even, but you have to clear out the high earners who aren't suitable for the Championship, and you have to reinvest some of that money back into the squad.

We did the former but not the latter. Recipe for disaster, and not trying to rectify it in January is probably the worst part, because they'd seen the results of lack of investment and still carried on with it.
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Kone has been absolute shite mate
 
who are the take over talks meant to be with, have been on my jollies and missed all the gossip and have seen nothing in the paper.
 
Confucius said:
I honestly don’t get this mate. Short not investing is only part of the problem as this squad should have stopped up easily. It is the whole negativity around the place. A negativity caused by an owner who wants out, couldn’t give a fuck what happens and doesn’t even show up to give his support. The ground is lacking a bit of maintenance and looking dishevelled, the atmosphere and heart has been torn out of the place whilst his greasy f***ing sidekick fills us with corporate shite, then disappears. Before any change in fortunes takes place they both have to go. We need a breath of fresh air actually telling us how it is not, not a pair of numbnuts saying we should be in the top 10 in the Premier League and the other telling us he is doing such a great job and what a great transfer window we had.
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Not a good reason to hand over to the first bunch of no money chancers that come along though

GiantHogweed said:
Who's the best poster on this thread then??

There's some jockeying for positions like....
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I hadn’t posted on it until my ‘best poster’ alert went off
 
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KittenMittens said:
He's not worth the money he's on, but he's been decent since Coleman took over. When you see the likes of Keogh and that in this division you can see how bad it can get for defenders...
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Have you ever published a book?
 
Boris Bear said:
Not a good reason to hand over to the first bunch of no money chancers that come along though
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Who said it was? Sticking with this fucker cos he is paying the running costs isn’t good reason to keep him. The only point I’m making is that if both are only going to cover losses, I’d rather we went along with someone else. Someone who might attend games, want to run a club, who actually cares, pop his head in the changing room, greet his assets and at least have the common decency to meet the manager
 
Confucius said:
Who said it was? Sticking with this fucker cos he is paying the running costs isn’t good reason to keep him. The only point I’m making is that if both are only going to cover losses, I’d rather we went along with someone else. Someone who might attend games, want to run a club, who actually cares, pop his head in the changing room, greet his assets and at least have the common decency to meet the manager
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I don’t give a fuck whether they attend, want to run a club, or pop their head in. I want someone who has the capability and the wherewithal to run the club and that’s less likely to happen with some interim chancers
 
AndyH said:
who are the take over talks meant to be with, have been on my jollies and missed all the gossip and have seen nothing in the paper.
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Nobody knows. There was one Irish businessman linked about a fortnight ago, but that got quashed. Other than that it's all been pure speculation. Although I think we'll see something change in the coming months, it was lack of names being made public last summer that led me to think the German consortium was bollocks.
 
Botchie said:
Nobody knows. There was one Irish businessman linked about a fortnight ago, but that got quashed. Other than that it's all been pure speculation. Although I think we'll see something change in the coming months, it was lack of names being made public last summer that led me to think the German consortium was bollocks.
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Thanks for the info.
 
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