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Black people

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gosforth Mackem
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Fletch said:
was about to post the same thing, was a canny watch and interesting theory ... similar theory why certain african countries produce the best marathon runners as they descend from tribes that were nomadic and always on the move , could all be bollocks mind you

Edit - why most boxers are black ? yet never see black swimmers in olympics ?
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Sure a Jamaican lass won a medal at the CG, you have to think they'd be as good at that too if they had the facilities
 
PrisonBroken said:
Do they though?
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I'll have a look at that in full later, but for counter balance:

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To add to the physical side of the debate, it isn't just fibre type composition. It's to do with tendon elasticity etc too.
 
Blyth_Pirate said:
I have always wondered why it is that you rarely see any black swimmers.
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going slightly off topic but I remember reading something a year or two ago about how the American Govt were trying to encourage more African Americans to learn to swim as there are a number of deaths each year which basic swimming skills would make easily avoidable, but the article explained how in America swimming is a cultural no no for blacks.
 
Titus said:
I'll have a look at that in full later, but for counter balance:

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To add to the physical side of the debate, it isn't just fibre type composition. It's to do with tendon elasticity etc too.
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Oh I know. And it could be the case but it is widely written in the media and even in scientific literature as fact.

Looking at the evidence that review that states clearly the is a differnce the evidence is gives is poor.

The proportion of myofiber type differs by race, with non-Hispanic Black subjects possessing more anaerobic (type II) myofibers, and non-Hispanic White subjects possessing more type I myofibers. Type II myofibers are associated with obesity, hypertension, and diabetes in some groups, particularly non-Hispanic Black subjects [
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,
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, ].

1992 - 23 males Type I - 8% down, Type IIa 6.7% up & Type IIb no difference. The differences did test p<0.05
1994 - Doesn't deal with race but interestingly does show that hard training can alter the profile of type II fibres
2011 - I couldn't get to the full article but it reads like they are hypothesising that increase in diabeties etc is due to that but I can't see what they are measuring at all

However, in five minutes I found another study performed 5 years later that whilst admittedly had a smaller cohort 14 versus 23 found no reliable difference.
I was surprised at the dearth of available data for something that is so widely reported.
It seems to me a lot of people are looking at health demographics, increase obesity, hypertension and diabetes and correctly saying an increase in Type II fibres could be contributing to that but then haven't actually done a whole lot of work to make sure that is the case.
I've not performed and exhaustive search by any mean but 1992 and 1997 and that is it?
They are saying they think they have identified the casue of one of the biggest risk factors of diseases to millions of people and they stop at 2 studies.
 
Titus said:
There's a genetic element that can't be overlooked imo, but the sociological aspect is important. Look at heavyweight boxing for example. Americans have had some superb heavies over the years, even until relatively recent times. But now athletes aren't interested when they can become a millionaire without playing a professional game yet.
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Swamped by the social factors, IMHO.
 
PrisonBroken said:
Oh I know. And it could be the case but it is widely written in the media and even in scientific literature as fact.

Looking at the evidence that review that states clearly the is a differnce the evidence is gives is poor.

The proportion of myofiber type differs by race, with non-Hispanic Black subjects possessing more anaerobic (type II) myofibers, and non-Hispanic White subjects possessing more type I myofibers. Type II myofibers are associated with obesity, hypertension, and diabetes in some groups, particularly non-Hispanic Black subjects [
You must be logged on to see external links
,
You must be logged on to see external links
,
You must be logged on to see external links
].

1992 - 23 males Type I - 8% down, Type IIa 6.7% up & Type IIb no difference. The differences did test p<0.05
1994 - Doesn't deal with race but interestingly does show that hard training can alter the profile of type II fibres
2011 - I couldn't get to the full article but it reads like they are hypothesising that increase in diabeties etc is due to that but I can't see what they are measuring at all

However, in five minutes I found another study performed 5 years later that whilst admittedly had a smaller cohort 14 versus 23 found no reliable difference.
I was surprised at the dearth of available data for something that is so widely reported.
It seems to me a lot of people are looking at health demographics, increase obesity, hypertension and diabetes and correctly saying an increase in Type II fibres could be contributing to that but then haven't actually done a whole lot of work to make sure that is the case.
I've not performed and exhaustive search by any mean but 1992 and 1997 and that is it?
They are saying they think they have identified the casue of one of the biggest risk factors of diseases to millions of people and they stop at 2 studies.
Click to expand...

I'll try and pull up some more later, but I agree. The thing about a study like this is that it really needs a long term study which measures athletes shifts in fibre composition in response to certain stressors.
 
Harry Angstrom said:
Swamped by the social factors, IMHO.
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At what point to social factors that have potentially caused genetic adaptation to a person's/groups physiology stop becoming social?

My brain is foggy so I probably won't be wording this too well, but I think certain countries have more of a balance between relative poverty and sporting opportunity. Others likely have the genetic talent without the opportunity. So in America if some poor black kid from the ghetto shows exceptional talent, he can then be presented with scholarships etc. Whereas somewhere like Mexico has no shortage of poverty but less opportunity to be given elite training scholarships etc.

It's not something I've looked in to massively before, but it is interesting. Anecdotally, the best black athletes I've worked or trained with for pure power are from Jamaica, and the best black athletes for strength have typically been from Africa, notably Nigeria
 
Titus said:
At what point to social factors that have potentially caused genetic adaptation to a person's/groups physiology stop becoming social?

My brain is foggy so I probably won't be wording this too well, but I think certain countries have more of a balance between relative poverty and sporting opportunity. Others likely have the genetic talent without the opportunity. So in America if some poor black kid from the ghetto shows exceptional talent, he can then be presented with scholarships etc. Whereas somewhere like Mexico has no shortage of poverty but less opportunity to be given elite training scholarships etc.

It's not something I've looked in to massively before, but it is interesting. Anecdotally, the best black athletes I've worked or trained with for pure power are from Jamaica, and the best black athletes for strength have typically been from Africa, notably Nigeria
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There are many many people who have the potential to become world class but don't have the facilities, the coaching, the dedication, the inner drive etc etc

Matthew Syed's book Bounce has an interesting insight in what makes the greats in sport.
 
Gosforth Mackem said:
Obviously I'm well aware that in this day and age of offended individuals I'm running the risk.....but why are black people more than anyone else very good at sprinting etc and long distance running....obviously over the years I've watched lots of 100/200 metres finals and they're all black....so apart from Alan Wells got me thinking....is it a DNA thing ?

Im going to be banned aren't I :( it was honestly just an observation ...there must be something in their make-up
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Used to being chased?
 
Gosforth Mackem said:
Obviously I'm well aware that in this day and age of offended individuals I'm running the risk.....but why are black people more than anyone else very good at sprinting etc and long distance running....obviously over the years I've watched lots of 100/200 metres finals and they're all black....so apart from Alan Wells got me thinking....is it a DNA thing ?

Im going to be banned aren't I :( it was honestly just an observation ...there must be something in their make-up
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I have races against Alan and we played in the same football team. He was a big powerful lad then when he 14/ 15.

Dagzd1973 said:
We haven't needed to run away from Lions for thousands of years where as they have. We've evolved into slow whiteys.
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one of my art teachers at secondary, was one of the corries. he explained one day, that Raleigh (IIRC) the bike company, thought of doing a campaign to increase bike sales in parts of africa.
They did this by having a guy on a bike and speeding away from a lion, to show how good the bike was.
The campaign was a flop.
Turned out, the locals thought by using a bike, they would get chased by lions as lions didn't like bikes.
 
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JAZZMANB said:
Most people can work out basic differences and advantages from one race to another due to how we developed.Good try at linking it to people having issues with racism
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I just addressed what the op said mate. I ain't trying to link it to anything.
 
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