The Bookkeeper of Auschwitz has died.



I said they were a unit of German military. It’s close enough. You’re branding someone a war criminal based on no evidence he committed any actual genocide.

You completely ignored the rest of the post. Which is why I said glossing.



So that makes him actively a war criminal and genocidal? I don’t buy it, unless there’s proof he actually killed someone and was free to leave Auschwitz at any time without harm to him or his family.

So he was only obeying orders?
 
I'm not taking a stubborn stance at all. I am entirely open to having my opinion changed.

@Tadger, @MrOompapa and @Cockney Mackem have made pleasant and informed posts that have allowed me to better understand their position and between first reading and now, I feel like their knowledge can or could influence my opinion.

Whereas on the other hand, you just jumped in like a bellend. Nothing wrong with that, I've done it myself, but it doesn't make you any less of one.
If trying to stop someone making a fool of themselves is what makes me a bellend then so be it.

Id hate to think what being a pretendy knowitall and resorting to name-calling makes someone though.
 
If trying to stop someone making a fool of themselves is what makes me a bellend then so be it.

Id hate to think what being a pretendy knowitall and resorting to name-calling makes someone though.

I'm not a pretend know-it-all though. I've not pretended to know everything in this thread, and have been entirely open, throughout the thread, to the opinions of others.

In fact, I don't know that on other threads. I may be stubborn in some of my opinions, but I do not pretend to know everything and I am open when I believe I am incorrect.

You weren't trying to stop me making a 'fool' of myself at all, don't pretend this was some kind act :lol:

You started it all by saying my posts should be ignored and that I was an embarrassment. You're welcome to believe that if you wish. I'd rather discuss with people open to discussion. You're not.

So he was only obeying orders?

To some degree, were they all not obeying orders? Like was discussed earlier some high ranking Nazis used that defence. If a soldier is given the choice of disobeying orders or committing a war crime, what can you expect them to do? I am unsure as to what the punishment would be if they refused.

I cannot be sure he was just following orders. In some ways it seems like he was, the opinions of others suggest that he had some true belief in what he was being asked to do, up to a point.
 
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I'm not a pretend know-it-all though. I've not pretended to know everything in this thread, and have been entirely open, throughout the thread, to the opinions of others.

In fact, I don't know that on other threads. I may be stubborn in some of my opinions, but I do not pretend to know everything and I am open when I believe I am incorrect.

You weren't trying to stop me making a 'fool' of myself at all, don't pretend this was some kind act :lol:

You started it all by saying my posts should be ignored and that I was an embarrassment. You're welcome to believe that if you wish. I'd rather discuss with people open to discussion. You're not.



To some degree, were they all not obeying orders? Like was discussed earlier some high ranking Nazis used that defence. If a soldier is given the choice of disobeying orders or committing a war crime, what can you expect them to do? I am unsure as to what the punishment would be if they refused.

I cannot be sure he was just following orders. In some ways it seems like he was, the opinions of others suggest that he had some true belief in what he was being asked to do, up to a point.

It's just that the legal arguments around using orders as a defence were exhausted at Nuremberg in the 1940s
 
If trying to stop someone making a fool of themselves is what makes me a bellend then so be it.

Id hate to think what being a pretendy knowitall and resorting to name-calling makes someone though.

He's being stubborn but I think it's unfair to suggest he's being a "knowitall", I think he's been pretty open with the fact that he's not familiar with the details but is trying to apply some general logic and principles to the situation. The position he is taking pretty reasonable in principle. We should be very careful of condemning those who took part in a war of this nature. It's a position that thankfully none of us have ever been in, and you would be amazed at what you can get ordinary people to do under these circumstances (see Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning).

When I first saw this story a year or two back, I held a similar position as a starting point. However, I also didn't know enough about SS recruitment, which I think is key to this. It's highly likely that you are not an "ordinary man" if you join the SS. It's at this point that he's being stubborn - he should really step back from the discussion and go away and learn more about that instead of continuing to argue his point.
 
If you ever visit Berlin then the Topography of Terror will blow your mind. Otherwise I'm sure someone off here can recommend a canny book. Your understanding of who and what the SS were is severely lacking and you're embarrassing yourself by harping on about it.

Was at the Topografie de Terror last year. Horrifying and mind blowing at the same time.
 
He's being stubborn but I think it's unfair to suggest he's being a "knowitall", I think he's been pretty open with the fact that he's not familiar with the details but is trying to apply some general logic and principles to the situation. The position he is taking pretty reasonable in principle. We should be very careful of condemning those who took part in a war of this nature. It's a position that thankfully none of us have ever been in, and you would be amazed at what you can get ordinary people to do under these circumstances (see Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning).

When I first saw this story a year or two back, I held a similar position as a starting point. However, I also didn't know enough about SS recruitment, which I think is key to this. It's highly likely that you are not an "ordinary man" if you join the SS. It's at this point that he's being stubborn - he should really step back from the discussion and go away and learn more about that instead of continuing to argue his point.

This fundamental point about the banality of evil seems to have been lost despite being the most important lesson of the era. People can be whipped up, and their more extreme elements can be effectively radicalised, by a number of factors that can happen even in sophisticated societies. People have put their heads in the sand and (ironically) the old stereotypes have been allowed to creep in that it's foreign or some sort of "other" elements that you have to watch out for, when the real danger is the erosion of the principles and structures that keep civilisation civilised - which is happening under our noses
 
He's being stubborn but I think it's unfair to suggest he's being a "knowitall", I think he's been pretty open with the fact that he's not familiar with the details but is trying to apply some general logic and principles to the situation. The position he is taking pretty reasonable in principle. We should be very careful of condemning those who took part in a war of this nature. It's a position that thankfully none of us have ever been in, and you would be amazed at what you can get ordinary people to do under these circumstances (see Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning).

When I first saw this story a year or two back, I held a similar position as a starting point. However, I also didn't know enough about SS recruitment, which I think is key to this. It's highly likely that you are not an "ordinary man" if you join the SS. It's at this point that he's being stubborn - he should really step back from the discussion and go away and learn more about that instead of continuing to argue his point.

To be fair I have done that, and acknowledged to those posters that have an ounce of respect that my lack of knowledge on a specific point undermines the rest of the argument.
 
I think to some degree it is a valid argument.

It isn’t a valid argument if you are one of the architects of the system or have the means to get away from the situation though.



Do you have a link to that as I do not recall seeing that in the linked article.

Ffs frijj go and read up on this. After the war, shocked by what people could do to each other while blaming their superiors they did the electric shock test.

It is not a defense.
 
:lol: not sure what my ego has to do with it. You're arguing with people who know what they're talking about on a subject you dont. Save your own ego and read a book on it.

Your posts shouldn't be glossed over they should be ignored. I'm not sure why you're so insistent on ramming an opinion down others throats on a topic you have openly accepted you don't understand.
This is your first interaction with young frijj isn't it mate? :lol:
 
This is your first interaction with young frijj isn't it mate? :lol:
I tend to just leave him to it to be honest but see how he talks to others so enough awareness of who he is :lol:
Was finding it all just too cringy yesterday though so had to try and help the poor lad out with some sage advice.

It isn’t actually. He does catch on fast though :cool:
You've got a better memory than me then mate. Can't remember any particular exchange in the past like.
 
People criticising former SS concentration camp staff, bloody virtue signallers.

:lol:

I tend to just leave him to it to be honest but see how he talks to others so enough awareness of who he is :lol:
Was finding it all just too cringy yesterday though so had to try and help the poor lad out with some sage advice.


You've got a better memory than me then mate. Can't remember any particular exchange in the past like.

Private schools
 

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