The Bookkeeper of Auschwitz has died.



As Frijj says, define war criminals.

Okay, we will start with Bomber Harris, responsible for the bombing of civilians in Dresden. Or Churchill. We could maybe bring in Tony Blair who lied to get us into another war.

We could even start with the British in the First World War. Forgotten: Britain’s civilian mass prison camps from World War I

That was unfortunate collateral damage in a open war scenario.

And internment camps for Germans during the First World War is a world away from what went on in the Second. Your comparing apples with bowling balls.

Did they employ genocidal accountants as standard like?

Do some research before you make smartarse comments.
 
That was unfortunate collateral damage in a open war scenario.

And internment camps for Germans during the First World War is a world away from what went on in the Second. Your comparing apples with bowling balls.



Do some research before you make smartarse comments.

So every member of the SS was set on genocide? People didn't join the SS because their parents did or because they wanted to serve their country?
 
So every member of the SS was set on genocide? People didn't join the SS because their parents did or because they wanted to serve their country?

It was declared a criminal organisation after the war.

By joining the SS you signed up to the belief that you were the master race and that Europe needed to be reordered accordingly.

Whatever the motivation for joining up in the first place, the SS was the armed wing of the NSDAP.
 
It was declared a criminal organisation after the war.

By joining the SS you signed up to the belief that you were the master race and that Europe needed to be reordered accordingly.

Whatever the motivation for joining up in the first place, the SS was the armed wing of the NSDAP.

That alone does not a war criminal make mind. I don't think a camp accountant whose stated job was literally to count things, and not kill anyone, is a genocidal war criminal.
 
That alone does not a war criminal make mind. I don't think a camp accountant whose stated job was literally to count things, and not kill anyone, is a genocidal war criminal.

If the organisation they’re a member of is criminal, a member of it by default is a criminal, no?
 
I think its about much more than who does the actual killing.
The Third Reich was involved in industrial scale genocide.
It couldn't have functioned without planning, logistics, transport, construction, finance, and a hundred and one other things that maintained the system.
It needed people to count things too - stocks of zyklon B, ammunition, provisions, wages, shoes and clothing and other belongings taken from the dead, and of course corpses.

Groening was complicit in the genocide and was a war criminal.
 
It was declared a criminal organisation after the war.

By joining the SS you signed up to the belief that you were the master race and that Europe needed to be reordered accordingly.

Whatever the motivation for joining up in the first place, the SS was the armed wing of the NSDAP.

The operative words in your post are ‘after the war’. Those who joined up earlier had no real knowledge of what would be done by the organisation as time passed.

I think its about much more than who does the actual killing.
The Third Reich was involved in industrial scale genocide.
It couldn't have functioned without planning, logistics, transport, construction, finance, and a hundred and one other things that maintained the system.
It needed people to count things too - stocks of zyklon B, ammunition, provisions, wages, shoes and clothing and other belongings taken from the dead, and of course corpses.

Groening was complicit in the genocide and was a war criminal.

Okay, if we take your view that everyone involved is a war criminal then what do you think about the bombing of civilians? That could be considered industrial genocide in some cases. So, should the officers and men in the RAF be considered as war criminals? If not, then why not?

Secondly, many people were involved in the manufacture and servicing of airplanes, if you consider the ones who flew as war criminals, then do you extend that belief to the people who built the aircraft too?
 
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The operative words in your post are ‘after the war’. Those who joined up earlier had no real knowledge of what would be done by the organisation as time passed.



Okay, if we take your view that everyone involved is a war criminal then what do you think about the bombing of civilians? That could be considered industrial genocide in some cases. So, should the officers and men in the RAF be considered as war criminals? If not, then why not?

Secondly, many people were involved in the manufacture and servicing of airplanes, if you consider the ones who flew as war criminals, then do you extend that belief to the people who built the aircraft too?

Once again, you’re comparing a legitimate armed force performing a bombing raid that results in collateral damage to civilians to a political organisation charged with the eradication of an entire people.

You seem to insist on comparing the SS to your average armed force and I don’t understand why.
 
So in your view, every member of the SS was a war criminal, regardless of what they actually did in the SS, because the organisation was declared a criminal organisation?

Fair enough. I don't take such a blanket approach, I think it's more important what the individual themselves did.

The machine can’t function unless all of its parts are working.

I’d certainly consider their role within it when sentencing is decided. Someone like Groening would not have hanged, he would have been inprisoned. People like Eichmann, Himmler (Had he not killed himself), Heydrich (Had us and the Czechs not done away with him) etc would have and did hang.
 
Don’t be silly. He did request a transfer and was refused. He was under military discipline do you really think that he could have resigned in the middle of a war? In the same circumstances,the vast majority of people would have done exactly what he did, do as he was told and keep his head down. I know that I would have irrespective of what my personal opinions were, but I guess this will bring out the virtue signallers in force. Try being honest and tell me, what would you have done?

This.
 
You take a look around Auschwitz and everything is very carefully worded around the actions of the SS and not Germans, the German Army or even Nazis.

Strange case this though, considering how few were pursued/prosecuted and the fact he spoke up against Holocaust deniers.

Whether or not he was truly complicit only he would know.
 

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