Carillion sells contracts.



Just under a million quid a year (for 30 years) my school pays Carillion for a shoddy building that is dropping to bits after 8 years.

Costing the school that much in repayments another 14 staff are going to be made redundant this year.

They’ve fleeced the tax payer for years and it’s going to continue. It’s f***ing disgusting
 
a certain lady in the 80s decided local authorities didn't need to employ local people to do stuff, big business could do it cheaper and better - lose , lose

My memory/understanding/experience was that there was a seismic shift in the Construction industry when Harold Wilson brought in Selective Employment Tax.For those not old enough those not working in export led industries were taxed a premium.
Overnight General Contractors shifted out their directly employed trades who all became subbies and /or when onto the lump. Same with the Direct Labour Organisations which were local councils works departments.
The industries quality standards - training standards particularly-why have apprentices for a 5year apprenticeship in those circs plummeted.
Thatcher of course was another but the Tories hated LA's who generally still had kept their own Architects department, QS's, M&E depts Clerk of Works etc. etc. Those were generally hived off to private consultants or just closed down. The emphasis thereby shifting from a stakeholder system to a profit based system. That's were the likes of Carillion has their genesis.
In my career I worked for range of employers- directly employed by Clients, then Uni's and Local County Councils and finally Consultants ending up with Carillion.
I couldn't believe the quality that was acceptable tbf towards the end of my career nor the horrendous service Clients received nor the lack of awareness of quality especially as the industry moved to having Graduates as managers who bright as they might be had little awareness of anything but their production targets..
I could go on but |I'd probably best not.
 
Can you explain then in 2013 BB had a turnover double that of carillion, yet BB who were ranked 1 for turn over made 4 million. Carillion, who were ranked 2nd on turnover, made 110 million. The year before, almost identical figures.
Turnover means back shit.
I do very nicely in what I do with a modest turnover.Profit and in the case of large construction companies, share price is key. Carillion were streets ahead making them the largest.
For the record in not a carillion fan but they were undoubtedly the largest.They got too big for their boots and paid the penalty.Much like Owen Pugh, but in a much grander scale. There's a message somewere in all that, companies should stick to what they do best.
Think about it in football terms. A player earned £30,000 a week but spent £31,000. £52,000 a year in debt.
 
My memory/understanding/experience was that there was a seismic shift in the Construction industry when Harold Wilson brought in Selective Employment Tax.For those not old enough those not working in export led industries were taxed a premium.
Overnight General Contractors shifted out their directly employed trades who all became subbies and /or when onto the lump. Same with the Direct Labour Organisations which were local councils works departments.
The industries quality standards - training standards particularly-why have apprentices for a 5year apprenticeship in those circs plummeted.
Thatcher of course was another but the Tories hated LA's who generally still had kept their own Architects department, QS's, M&E depts Clerk of Works etc. etc. Those were generally hived off to private consultants or just closed down. The emphasis thereby shifting from a stakeholder system to a profit based system. That's were the likes of Carillion has their genesis.
In my career I worked for range of employers- directly employed by Clients, then Uni's and Local County Councils and finally Consultants ending up with Carillion.
I couldn't believe the quality that was acceptable tbf towards the end of my career nor the horrendous service Clients received nor the lack of awareness of quality especially as the industry moved to having Graduates as managers who bright as they might be had little awareness of anything but their production targets..
I could go on but |I'd probably best not.
As a part one qualified architect I worked with them on a few builds. They are crooks.

Charging Local authorities 40 quid for a 4 quid bin, clocks for walls costing a fiver charged at 60 quid.
 
Just under a million quid a year (for 30 years) my school pays Carillion for a shoddy building that is dropping to bits after 8 years.

Costing the school that much in repayments another 14 staff are going to be made redundant this year.

They’ve fleeced the tax payer for years and it’s going to continue. It’s f***ing disgusting
Let's be honest anyone in the last 5 year to deal with these fuckers would
 
Just under a million quid a year (for 30 years) my school pays Carillion for a shoddy building that is dropping to bits after 8 years.

Costing the school that much in repayments another 14 staff are going to be made redundant this year.

They’ve fleeced the tax payer for years and it’s going to continue. It’s f***ing disgusting
If it's dropping to bits they winter lying full whack they'll play the unavailability card.
As a part one qualified architect I worked with them on a few builds. They are crooks.

Charging Local authorities 40 quid for a 4 quid bin, clocks for walls costing a fiver charged at 60 quid.
As an Architect how much over your actual hourly rate does your firm charge for your services.
 
Can one of you explain to me how turnover means nothing?

I think the point is a company with highest turnover could make a loss in which case it is worth less than
As a part one qualified architect I worked with them on a few builds. They are crooks.

Charging Local authorities 40 quid for a 4 quid bin, clocks for walls costing a fiver charged at 60 quid.


It is entirely possible the majority of the contract was undersold (by errors in pricing/ or simply to win the revenue) resulting in a dubious behaviour of squeezing every last penny from additional chargeable works to stem the losses
 
I think the point is a company with highest turnover could make a loss in which case it is worth less than



It is entirely possible the majority of the contract was undersold (by errors in pricing/ or simply to win the revenue) resulting in a dubious behaviour of squeezing every last penny from additional chargeable works to stem the losses

The cynicism was unreal. Often the procurement documents and contracts were often negotiated with Clients who were basically naive so that the contracts appeared attractive to Clients but were so loaded that, as you say every last penny was squeezed, with a get in and get out as fast as possible ethos being the driver. I worked for them for just on a year.I tore my hair out metaphorically trying to get defects fixed whilst being told I had miniscule time to sort a defect list of hundreds of items and often no budgets to get things put right. And at that time I was a guy with 45 years of high end successful contracts behind me. I'd go in to the office and scream and just be met with blank incomprehension. And people wonder how stuff like Grenfell happened. Not a Carillion contract but that's the way the industry went. I'm so glad to have got out.
 
Work had practically stopped due to the lack of funds and the council had been approached for more money than quoted. They have fell short of what was expected for the amount paid the job hasn't moved on for ten weeks. Anyway WDSC getting involved for the cheapest quote yet again.
#Laughing stock.
And don't give me the shit about it could of happened to anyone.
In any other business you would be laughed at mate.
Do you think it was a good move getting involved with them boris? Don't dodge the question.
This

@Boris Bear

They’ve left the town looking f***ing worse.

a big black box that looks like the architecture of that building near the galleries in Washington.

Knocked down a few buildings in seaburn.

Well done sunderland Council, Len could have done a better job.

Wonder how many installments tbeyve paid carillion?

I reckon with Work starting down the sea front they’ll be two instalments in, so half the money could have been paid and all they’ve done is take away the Pullman lodge.

Bet they’ve done the same with that chapel Garth estate
 
I think the point is a company with highest turnover could make a loss in which case it is worth less than



It is entirely possible the majority of the contract was undersold (by errors in pricing/ or simply to win the revenue) resulting in a dubious behaviour of squeezing every last penny from additional chargeable works to stem the losses
In other words fraud.....
 
In other words fraud.....
An overly aggressive business model in a sector where you cannot take risks.

Tesla and amazon have grown rapidly by taking risks and it seems someone at carillion wanted to do the same.

Didn’t the company that built the SoL really cheaply go bust not long after?
 
An overly aggressive business model in a sector where you cannot take risks.

Tesla and amazon have grown rapidly by taking risks and it seems someone at carillion wanted to do the same.

Didn’t the company that built the SoL really cheaply go bust not long after?


That was more due to the Dutch being complete assholes
 
I worked for Carillion 10 years ago as a Contract Manager and I can honestly say they are the most uncaring company I have ever worked for. Workforce and customers mean nothing to them as long as they are creaming it in. Deserve all they get. Feel desperately sorry for employees if they go under. Won’t bother Carillon one it mind. Set of arseholes.
 
Extremely concerned about the outcome of the Vaux site if their situation continues to deteriorate. Hopefully given that the project is underway, another firm can buy out that contract.

No doubt of course Sunderland Council will be unfairly copping the blame again :rolleyes:
 

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