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NZ test squad chat

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Voice of fair play said:
Just ignore you comment about Buttler as that is not what I meant which you probably know,why can't Livingstone bat at 6, putting him at 3 would be unfair on the lad
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I couldn't let you Buttler comment pass, I wish I had his agent......

He bats at three, he wants to bat at three, he is most comfortable at three, so put him at three. This is like Ballance in reverse, who batted at five all season for Yorkshire but when they called him up they put his at three. Put the players where they are the most comfortable, give them the best chance to succeed.

And leave the skipper where he is for the exact same reasons, and leave Malan where he's had some success.
 

mackembhoy said:
It isn’t but you don’t stick a rookie at 3 or Vince who’d probably be better at 4/5(wishful thinking)

Root will still be excellent at 3. Most of ya best ever batsman have played at 3
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Why not? We put a rookie in at 1 or 2.

Personally I'd prefer to play another opener then have the strong engine room in the middle order (assuming Stokes is available).
 
Manbearpig81 said:
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56 18.26
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17 19.64
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16 31.31
6 37.66
31 38.80
12 51.41
1 197.00

Bowling averages of the fast bowlers going to NZ. There's no way Woakes and Broad should be considered automatic picks based on the last year. I'd pick Anderson/TRJ/Wood at the moment but if Wood isn't fit or isn't up to pace in the ODI's I'd give Overton another go.
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TRJ's numbers are slightly skewed in that he had 4 wickets in his first 6 overs and ended up with 9-100odd in his first game at his home ground, and he hasn't had to go on tour yet.

mackembhoy said:
It isn’t but you don’t stick a rookie at 3 or Vince who’d probably be better at 4/5(wishful thinking)

Root will still be excellent at 3. Most of ya best ever batsman have played at 3
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Of the modern day greats Tendulkar spent the vast majority of career at 4, Lara played most of his career at 4, Kallis spent most of his career at 4, Steve Smith bats 4, Kohli bats at 4......
 
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Steak Pie said:
TRJ's numbers are slightly skewed in that he had 4 wickets in his first 6 overs and ended up with 9-100odd in his first game at his home ground, and he hasn't had to go on tour yet.
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Also broad 31 wickets at 38 and for comparison stokes 16 wickets at 31.

But this is Test match cricket wickets count for a lot more than cost of runs especially compared to one dayers.
 
Bri said:
Also broad 31 wickets at 38 and for comparison stokes 16 wickets at 31.

But this is Test match cricket wickets count for a lot more than cost of runs especially compared to one dayers.
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I think the 38 wickets in 11 matches is a poor return. Especially for a bowler who's had the new ball in everyone of those matches.

3.5 wickets a match is poor for how many overs he bowls. I can't remember him taking any more than a wicket or two here and there except for the 1st innings at Melbourne.
 
Steak Pie said:
TRJ's numbers are slightly skewed in that he had 4 wickets in his first 6 overs and ended up with 9-100odd in his first game at his home ground, and he hasn't had to go on tour yet.



Of the modern day greats Tendulkar spent the vast majority of career at 4, Lara played most of his career at 4, Kallis spent most of his career at 4, Steve Smith bats 4, Kohli bats at 4......
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Whilst Dravid, Amla, Pujara, Sarwan & Khawaja batted at 3. Not James Vince or Gary Ballance.

Williamson and Ponting bat/batted at 3 and it's what a captain should do if required. If Amla wasn't there, I can't really see Du Plessis refusing to bat at 3 to do a job for his team.
 
brandon said:
Who would that opener be though?
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could be Jennings, Hameed, Robson or Gubbins or whoever. . . with added bonus that they could move up to actual opener if needs be.

Also wouldn't rule out Malan as a no 3, I reckon he's got the game, at least at County level maybe Test level too and also the steadiness for it.
 
Big Bird said:
Whilst Dravid, Amla, Pujara, Sarwan & Khawaja batted at 3. Not James Vince or Gary Ballance.

Williamson and Ponting bat/batted at 3 and it's what a captain should do if required. If Amla wasn't there, I can't really see Du Plessis refusing to bat at 3 to do a job for his team.
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Williamson, Dravid, Amla, but Faf has normally batted at 5. Sangakarra is another one who batted 3 most of his career.

The point was that this thinking that the best player/captain always bats at 3 is demonstrably untrue, more of the greats were actually at four. And that's where Root sees himself, so leave him there.
 
Steak Pie said:
Williamson, Dravid, Amla, but Faf has normally batted at 5. Sangakarra is another one who batted 3 most of his career.

The point was that this thinking that the best player/captain always bats at 3 is demonstrably untrue, more of the greats were actually at four. And that's where Root sees himself, so leave him there.
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Yea, that's been going round and I don't accept it. You play the player there who is best suited for the position - and that may not be your best batsman, it may be but it may not as they may be suited elsewhere. And as I say, I'd prefer an opener type batsman rather than a middle order type. But it's all about opinions.
 
Root is an opening batsmen and played his first series or so as one but wasn't quite doing it so got shifted down. A lot of openers are brought in at six to adjust. It happened with Rahul, Pujara in India, Katich, Burns, Khawaja in Australia. It happens in all teams with a settled batting line up who want to get a player who they know will take over when the senior players move on.
 
Steak Pie said:
I couldn't let you Buttler comment pass, I wish I had his agent......

He bats at three, he wants to bat at three, he is most comfortable at three, so put him at three. This is like Ballance in reverse, who batted at five all season for Yorkshire but when they called him up they put his at three. Put the players where they are the most comfortable, give them the best chance to succeed.

And leave the skipper where he is for the exact same reasons, and leave Malan where he's had some success.
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All about opinions I guess, I don't believe in throwing people in at the deep end when they are inevitably nervous and new, a bad start can dent their confidence and put them under too much pressure,

I remember Ponting statrting at 6 for the Aussies gaining confidence them moving up the order when he got more comfortable and confident.

Imo Root scores runs because his mentality and talent not because he happens to be 4, your best batsman should bat where your team needs them and currently 3 is a problem postition where the team needs a consistent performer.

The Buttler comment was nothing to do with the test side,it was in response to a poster who said he can't understand the way the press praise him.

I do ,because it is clear he is a exceptional talent who can play some innings very few English players can now play or ever have for that matter, He has the top 3 quickest hundreds of all time by a Englishman, if that is not evidence of talent I don't know what is?

That's speaks for itself surely!!
 
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I'd keep Root at 4. Captaining and batting 3 may destroy our best source of runs.

Don't have a huge problem giving Vince another two tests given the lack of other options.

Leach should be going though.
 
Bri said:
could be Jennings, Hameed, Robson or Gubbins or whoever. . . with added bonus that they could move up to actual opener if needs be.

Also wouldn't rule out Malan as a no 3, I reckon he's got the game, at least at County level maybe Test level too and also the steadiness for it.
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Problem is, none of them deserve to be in there now. Their form has been horrific.
 
brandon said:
Problem is, none of them deserve to be in there now. Their form has been horrific.
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and that applies to whichever way you shuffle the deckchairs.

the part I do agree with VOFP is that you need to look at as a whole. If root is moved can we fill the no 4 slot and still have that powerhouse in the engine room.

Even if Malan moves up to 4 imagine a 5, 6, 7, 8 of Root, Stokes, Bairstow and Ali - that's a run of players to make any team sit up and think.

nb should have added Hales to the list. *edit I know some of us wanted Hales in the Aussie Test squad and why he isn't in the NZ one is a mystery to me, perhaps the 5 day game isn't where he sees himself.
 
lets be honest, Ali's stats away from home on the bowling front are horrific, if this team is to progress we need to play a proper spinner, if Ali gets in the team as a batsman then great, nothing against Ali playing as a 2nd spinner but we need to fix the issues in this team if we are to win away from home in most conditions.
1 front line spinner needed.
1 90mph bowler needed (at least, 2 in flat decks)
1 Back up opener to come in if needed (Hameed, Robson)
Root or Malan or Livingstone to bat 3.
 
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