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The Post-Ashes Inquest Thread
- Thread starter Silly Point
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the red bit marra
Silly Point
Striker
The only time the Torygraph has ever been "red" 
Headingley Slog Fest
Midfield
The problem England have is they have adapted the team to play in England and England only. They can also play where the ball loops and hoops around but for Indian and Aussie conditions, they are just cannon fodder.
When Stokes did what he did, it should have been like for like, Plunkett in. They had to take a punt on Wood in the 3rd Test.
The main worry for me is Cook and Broad look finished, Moeen has been rank, Woakes the same, the Aussies haven’t targeted the new members, they’ve done exactly what they did in the last series down there and blow away the senior core, unnerve them and question their own futures.
England went down there under equipped for the job in hand and are going to get mauled 5-0 again.
When Stokes did what he did, it should have been like for like, Plunkett in. They had to take a punt on Wood in the 3rd Test.
The main worry for me is Cook and Broad look finished, Moeen has been rank, Woakes the same, the Aussies haven’t targeted the new members, they’ve done exactly what they did in the last series down there and blow away the senior core, unnerve them and question their own futures.
England went down there under equipped for the job in hand and are going to get mauled 5-0 again.
chopsfc007
Striker
Cook is in poor form he will come back
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stephen cartwright
Guest
There comes a time in a cricketer career, when he looks around and see all his contemporaries no longer in the side or retired.
It happened to Vaughan, Nasser and Strauss, ant they sailed off into the sunset
It's clear as day to see this happening with cook. He has only succeeded v the windies in his last four series. Nowt inindia, v south Africa and now Australia
He owes England nowt but he is running the risk, of finishing his career as a walking wicket.
B
Billy Rocket
Guest
Why do you think he's been playing so poorly?
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stephen cartwright
Guest
Basically he has a suspect technique, over the last year, which has been ruthlessly exposed by s Africa, India and Australia
No back foot deliveries given and soon or later he nicks one pitched up, misses it for lbw or bowled
You heard morne morkle talking on the pitch Mike, saying "it's coming cookie", just before a pitch up delivery got rid of him.
It's just a time that comes to all the greats and no shame on cook
Comeback_Kenwyne
Striker
The selectors are getting a lot of stick, some of which is deserved but some of it, not so much.
They have made one criminal decision on fast bowling - not selecting Plunkett. They have also made one bad one - selecting Ball ahead of Overton for the first test. But other than that, it's difficult to see what else they could have done.
Plunkett aside, they have two experienced test performers who regularly bowl upwards of 90mph and both of them have been injured until now. Could you have brought Wood in? Only for Perth - and that would have looked a desperate call tbh. He has not, under any reasonable yardstick, proved his fitness or form. It would have been a desperate selection, by a desperate team and who knows? We may have got the utterly inept Wood we saw against South Africa in the summer, where he was truly dire. Maybe they should have gone for it anyway, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. To have had Wood, Finn, Jamie Overton and Roland-Jones (who along with Stokes can perhaps adapt his natural game to be a faster, more aggressive bowler) all injured is bad luck, even before we account for Stokes's moment of madness.
Spinning has also been cited - and yes, the selection of Mason Crane as second spinner is rightly getting pelters. What happened if Ali gets injured or is out of form people said? Well, they were right. But let's be clear: you have to some pretty extraordinary faith in Leech - who, lets be clear, would face a barrage of media scrutiny over his action over there - to argue there are any real alternatives to making us competitive. Ali is not a great test bowler for sure, but remember why he's there: he has, time and again, outbowled anyone brought in alongside him. That may well say more about our spinning stocks than it does about his quality, but it is what it is: he's almost certainly our best spinner. The cupboard is bare.
Batting has been cited too and it has long been the team's achilles heel. But, actually, it is the senior players who have let us down here. You will never convince me that James Vince is a test level batsmen, certainly not at number three. But two decent fifties - he is doing his job. David Malan has been superb. Stoneman has done alright. The selectors have done ok with the batting. Anyone here who says they were calling for Cook to be dropped before what's happened - you are lying to us all and yourselves. I still wouldn't drop him, yet. Same goes for Broad, given injury problems (though he needs to be sidelined going forward - it's over for him, as far as I can see).
As for Stokes: the issue is simple. The ECB could not possible risk sending him out on the pitch, when he may be legally be called back to England on day three of a f***ing test. Can you imagine? It is absurd to argue otherwise.
So in short: we can fume and fume and fume. And many of the structural issues - the preparation of pitches and amount of cricket the domestic bowlers play - are valid points too. But the bottom line is this: Australia are a much better team than us. Especially in their conditions. A turd cannot be polished - and we are not a good test team.
They have made one criminal decision on fast bowling - not selecting Plunkett. They have also made one bad one - selecting Ball ahead of Overton for the first test. But other than that, it's difficult to see what else they could have done.
Plunkett aside, they have two experienced test performers who regularly bowl upwards of 90mph and both of them have been injured until now. Could you have brought Wood in? Only for Perth - and that would have looked a desperate call tbh. He has not, under any reasonable yardstick, proved his fitness or form. It would have been a desperate selection, by a desperate team and who knows? We may have got the utterly inept Wood we saw against South Africa in the summer, where he was truly dire. Maybe they should have gone for it anyway, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. To have had Wood, Finn, Jamie Overton and Roland-Jones (who along with Stokes can perhaps adapt his natural game to be a faster, more aggressive bowler) all injured is bad luck, even before we account for Stokes's moment of madness.
Spinning has also been cited - and yes, the selection of Mason Crane as second spinner is rightly getting pelters. What happened if Ali gets injured or is out of form people said? Well, they were right. But let's be clear: you have to some pretty extraordinary faith in Leech - who, lets be clear, would face a barrage of media scrutiny over his action over there - to argue there are any real alternatives to making us competitive. Ali is not a great test bowler for sure, but remember why he's there: he has, time and again, outbowled anyone brought in alongside him. That may well say more about our spinning stocks than it does about his quality, but it is what it is: he's almost certainly our best spinner. The cupboard is bare.
Batting has been cited too and it has long been the team's achilles heel. But, actually, it is the senior players who have let us down here. You will never convince me that James Vince is a test level batsmen, certainly not at number three. But two decent fifties - he is doing his job. David Malan has been superb. Stoneman has done alright. The selectors have done ok with the batting. Anyone here who says they were calling for Cook to be dropped before what's happened - you are lying to us all and yourselves. I still wouldn't drop him, yet. Same goes for Broad, given injury problems (though he needs to be sidelined going forward - it's over for him, as far as I can see).
As for Stokes: the issue is simple. The ECB could not possible risk sending him out on the pitch, when he may be legally be called back to England on day three of a f***ing test. Can you imagine? It is absurd to argue otherwise.
So in short: we can fume and fume and fume. And many of the structural issues - the preparation of pitches and amount of cricket the domestic bowlers play - are valid points too. But the bottom line is this: Australia are a much better team than us. Especially in their conditions. A turd cannot be polished - and we are not a good test team.
rentaghost
Striker
Excellent post IMO
S
stephen cartwright
Guest
Nearly but not quite. His review on broad, has him as being sidelined in the future, yet he is of the opinion he is finished now, but would not drop him now?
Three options in one paragraph. Which is the correct one?
rentaghost
Striker
It was an excellent post but it doesn't mean I agree with every word. I think he was suggesting that Broad's days are numbered but he should finish out the series. No objection to that really, Broad for some time seems to have lost the ability to move it away from the right handers which is his main problem. I'm not completely writing him off yet but he needs to address that.
Comeback_Kenwyne
Striker
Sorry if not clear. I don't see how we can drop him for this tour, given injury crisis. I don't think Wood AND Overton are likely to be fit for Melbourne - and both would have to be in order to drop Broad. As in, Overton keeps place, Wood comes in for Broad. So more likely, we keep Broad and play and underfit Wood. Maybe, by Sydney the equation will have changed - that's cricket.
There is Ball, of course, but he is awful. I've not seen anything from him yet (in any format - he's even worse in one days) - so certainly not dropping Broad for him.
I would be looking to move Broad on in the New Zealand series. Let's be clear: Woakes, Stokes and Anderson should be firing there. Time to try somebody else instead of Broad, barring an uptick in form in the next two tests. Overton (C) and Wood should both be fully fit by then.
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Good read, sorry if seb
We’ll see... I don’t think he will
Bri
Striker
It sounds like some of the Australian press agree.
smoker
Striker
f***ing morons. So, if one of our openers gets injured, we're looking at a middle order batsman up top.
England couldn't beat Australia 'comfortably' in 2015, with Broad and Anderson in peak form. Highly likely we won't have one or both in 2019. Unless Woakes, Stokes, TRJ or Finn can raise their bowling to the next level, we're in a spot of bother.
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Jack Torrance
Striker
f***ing morons. So, if one of our openers gets injured, we're looking at a middle order batsman up top.
England couldn't beat Australia 'comfortably' in 2015, with Broad and Anderson in peak form. Highly likely we won't have one or both in 2019. Unless Woakes, Stokes, TRJ or Finn can raise their bowling to the next level, we're in a spot of bother.
Woakes is a good bowler in England. The only time we had the ball swinging this series we bowled them out for just over 100 and Woakes took 4. On the other hand their bowlers will probably thrive on English conditions also
Comeback_Kenwyne
Striker
They're a better team than us. They're a top order batsman away from being a solid team, actually. Next Ashes will be competitive on current trajectories.
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