Save Doxfords West Gateway

Bob Fleming said:
I doubt people want it in a prime location. Not the whole thing. The page has only got 500 odd signatures. People are hardly clamouring for this. Lower expectations that the whole thing should be moved and there might be more support.
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The people of Sunderland rarely care about anything until it is foisted upon them....the fact is we should have never been in a position where we are down to literally the very last building from such a pivotal part of our history.

People have the nerve to call me negative, just sign the petition and help preserve a tiny piece of our proud history man.

Mackem00 said:
I mean not bein funny but look at the clip of that man. Just looks like a battered old shit house.
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No you're not being funny, you are being an absolute f***ing helmet for no good reason. If this was anywhere else but Sunderland it wouldnt even have got to this sad state of affairs.

Dont criticise the people who are trying to preserve a small piece of our history....criticise the people rhat have allowed things to get this way.
 
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moshpit said:
No you're not being funny, you are being an absolute f***ing helmet for no good reason. If this was anywhere else but Sunderland it wouldnt even have got to this sad state of affairs.

Dont criticise the people who are trying to preserve a small piece of our history....criticise the people rhat have allowed things to get this way.
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How am I being a helmet?
 
moshpit said:
The people of Sunderland rarely care about anything until it is foisted upon them....the fact is we should have never been in a position where we are down to literally the very last building from such a pivotal part of our history.

People have the nerve to call me negative, just sign the petition and help preserve a tiny piece of our proud history man.
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No, I don't feel we need to keep the whole building. The arches and gates will be enough. I do not want any council money to be spent on any more than that. If donations can raise enough to fully fund it and some land outside of the city centre can be found then I'm happy for it.
 
Bob Fleming said:
No, I don't feel we need to keep the whole building. The arches and gates will be enough. I do not want any council money to be spent on any more than that. If donations can raise enough to fully fund it and some land outside of the city centre can be found then I'm happy for it.
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Fair enough
 
moshpit said:
The people of Sunderland rarely care about anything until it is foisted upon them....the fact is we should have never been in a position where we are down to literally the very last building from such a pivotal part of our history.

People have the nerve to call me negative, just sign the petition and help preserve a tiny piece of our proud history man.


No you're not being funny, you are being an absolute f***ing helmet for no good reason. If this was anywhere else but Sunderland it wouldnt even have got to this sad state of affairs.

Dont criticise the people who are trying to preserve a small piece of our history....criticise the people rhat have allowed things to get this way.
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Can I suggest moving to tea, instead of inhaling strong coffee by the bucketload?
 
moshpit said:
The campaign page clearly states the intention is only to retain the arches and gates.

#fakenews
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The petition that is being circulated doesn't which is what I said. I also can't see it on the FB page but I'll take your word for it.

Out of interest, you didn't believe that the 10,000 people voting for the bridge name showed enough interest from the people of Sunderland. How many thousands of signatures do you need before you would consider this petition to be worthy of attention?

I have some suggestions to help the campaign and you can take them at face value or ignore them however I'm not after an argument.

  • Make it clear what you expect the petition to achieve. Is it to lobby the council? Persuade local businesses to stump up money? Convince other bodies (Heritage Lottery Fund etc) that there is a demand.
  • Be open and honest with all of the facts when sharing the petition. It adds weight to the argument when people are fully informed.
  • Explain why the whole building needs to be saved as opposed to the gates and arches.
  • Try and have some plan as to what would happen to it in the short, medium and long term.
  • Try and gain some understanding of how much it would cost to take it down, store it and rebuild/repair it. Not down to the last penny but not figures plucked out of thin air like the £250k.
  • A shipbuilding museum has been mooted as a possible use. Show that there is a demand for such a museum (bear in mind the Maritime Museum in Glasgow).
  • Be inventive. The shipbuilding museum may not be viable. Think of it as a working space that would be used by community groups etc.
  • Try and explain how it fits in with existing plans for the city (3,6,9 plan, cultural quarter etc)
  • Be realistic. If the council were to pay, what services would people be prepared to lose? Is there a compromise that would be acceptable to all parties?
  • Speak to people who have been successful in gaining funding from bodies such as Heritage Lottery Fund, Arts Council etc. This is where you are most likely to have success.
  • To gain funding from above bodies, matched funding is key. Approach businesses to see who would be prepared to help.
  • Be prepared to be questioned on all of the above without thinking it is an attack. I see it quite often in creative circles where people expect funding from the Arts Council etc but get offended when asked to explain why they deserve it. Inevitably it is the people who work hard to provide the answers who are successful.
It's a harsh fact that petitions mean very little even with hundreds of thousands of signatures. Success is going to come from a coherent plan and a willingness to work with people who you think are the enemy.
Time isn't on your side here so you need to come up with a plan quickly. Don't waste your time arguing, you aren't going to convince anyone to help by criticising them. At the very least you want to be in a position to be seen as a viable group to have input into what happens with the gates and arches.

From the outside looking in the campaign seems well intentioned but not thought through. Unfortunately good intentions aren't enough.
 
RestlessNatives said:
The petition that is being circulated doesn't which is what I said. I also can't see it on the FB page but I'll take your word for it.

Out of interest, you didn't believe that the 10,000 people voting for the bridge name showed enough interest from the people of Sunderland. How many thousands of signatures do you need before you would consider this petition to be worthy of attention?

I have some suggestions to help the campaign and you can take them at face value or ignore them however I'm not after an argument.

  • Make it clear what you expect the petition to achieve. Is it to lobby the council? Persuade local businesses to stump up money? Convince other bodies (Heritage Lottery Fund etc) that there is a demand.
  • Be open and honest with all of the facts when sharing the petition. It adds weight to the argument when people are fully informed.
  • Explain why the whole building needs to be saved as opposed to the gates and arches.
  • Try and have some plan as to what would happen to it in the short, medium and long term.
  • Try and gain some understanding of how much it would cost to take it down, store it and rebuild/repair it. Not down to the last penny but not figures plucked out of thin air like the £250k.
  • A shipbuilding museum has been mooted as a possible use. Show that there is a demand for such a museum (bear in mind the Maritime Museum in Glasgow).
  • Be inventive. The shipbuilding museum may not be viable. Think of it as a working space that would be used by community groups etc.
  • Try and explain how it fits in with existing plans for the city (3,6,9 plan, cultural quarter etc)
  • Be realistic. If the council were to pay, what services would people be prepared to lose? Is there a compromise that would be acceptable to all parties?
  • Speak to people who have been successful in gaining funding from bodies such as Heritage Lottery Fund, Arts Council etc. This is where you are most likely to have success.
  • To gain funding from above bodies, matched funding is key. Approach businesses to see who would be prepared to help.
  • Be prepared to be questioned on all of the above without thinking it is an attack. I see it quite often in creative circles where people expect funding from the Arts Council etc but get offended when asked to explain why they deserve it. Inevitably it is the people who work hard to provide the answers who are successful.
It's a harsh fact that petitions mean very little even with hundreds of thousands of signatures. Success is going to come from a coherent plan and a willingness to work with people who you think are the enemy.
Time isn't on your side here so you need to come up with a plan quickly. Don't waste your time arguing, you aren't going to convince anyone to help by criticising them. At the very least you want to be in a position to be seen as a viable group to have input into what happens with the gates and arches.

From the outside looking in the campaign seems well intentioned but not thought through. Unfortunately good intentions aren't enough.
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Second word is off.
 
JAZZMANB said:
So you've realised caring about something involves more than shouting at people.The city if full of nods to the past and i think if anything we live too much in the past with our previous glories so to say people don't care is bollocks.I take my son to all my old haunts,docks,quarries,bunkers etc ,stuff is there if you look for it
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It was a class reply mind. Whinging on and on and somebody in the know with experience gives him a long and detailed (and helpful) reply and he's not even interested. Classic smb. :lol:
 

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