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[The Ashes] first Test - Brisbane

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wayne entwhistle no9 said:
Mate you watch a lot of county cricket and I do. That England side look and play like a county side. They have 4 meduim pace bowlers who don't look like they will take wickets unless the ball is seaming, a slow bowler who is as much a batsmen as a bowler and a batting line up who look like they have never seen anybody bowl at 90mph with a bit of aggression and nous.
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I agree to a point but Stokes in for Ball and it looks a lot better. Anderson and Broad have bowled well but when you have to rely on both Woakes and Ball it becomes a weak collective attack. If we had Stokes bowling when they were 74/4 in the first innings and Stokes batting at 240/4 in our first innings we would be looking at an entirely different match situation IMO.
 

We got 52 and 10 for our last four wickets, they got 120. Smith stuck around and nursed the tail, none of ours did. Their bowlers attacked our tail hard, ours didn't. Therein lies the difference IMO. Get somewhere close to them and a 190 lead becomes 300+ and it's a completely different game.

Difficult to understate how much we are missing Stokes.

chunkylover53 said:
I only heard a bit, but he wasn’t especially critical

But then he knows the lad well...
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He was like, called him an idiot for falling into the obvious trap.
 
Steak Pie said:
We got 52 and 10 for our last four wickets, they got 120. Smith stuck around and nursed the tail, none of ours did. Their bowlers attacked our tail hard, ours didn't. Therein lies the difference IMO. Get somewhere close to them and a 190 lead becomes 300+ and it's a completely different game.

Difficult to understate how much we are missing Stokes.



He was like, called him an idiot for falling into the obvious trap.
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Must have missed that bit
 
Just caught up. As expected Aussies will win this one comfortably. Poor from England, as whilst Lyon is a threat, they don't have any X factor bowlers.
 
dangermows said:
Just caught up. As expected Aussies will win this one comfortably. Poor from England, as whilst Lyon is a threat, they don't have any X factor bowlers.
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They haven't won comfortably, it's been very close. As predicted that's more the sign of two above average teams not having the killer instinct though. A good team would have beaten either side on these performances at a canter.

Australias attack is decent but they were ably supported by brainless middle order batting from England on both occasions. Their tail is alright but they wouldn't have survived a sustained assault. England couldn't give them that though because they only have two bowlers of any quality. The match has really been a battle of five good players or so across both sides stitching together the mediocrity of the rest.

Exciting ebb and flow but the quality across the teams has been middling
 
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sonson said:
They haven't won comfortably, it's been very close. As predicted that's more the sign of two above average teams not having the killer instinct though. A good team would have beaten either side on these performances at a canter.

Australias attack is decent but they were ably supported by brainless middle order batting from England on both occasions. Their tail is alright but they wouldn't have survived a sustained assault. England couldn't give them that though because they only have two bowlers of any quality. The match has really been a battle of five good players or so across both sides stitching together the mediocrity of the rest.

Exciting ebb and flow but the quality across the teams has been middling
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This they're definitely beatable. Their batting line up was fragile like we thought bar a phenomenal innings from Smith. Still look at our first innings as a massive missed opportunity
 
Didn't see the cricket last night cos I went out after our wonderful away win at Burton.

WTF went wrong? All out for 195 from the position we were in is terrible.

Bad shot making? Excellent Aussie bowling? What's happened for us to go from favourites to win to on the verge of going 1-0 down?

So depressing.
 
Laidback Jack said:
Didn't see the cricket last night cos I went out after our wonderful away win at Burton.

WTF went wrong? All out for 195 from the position we were in is terrible.

Bad shot making? Excellent Aussie bowling? What's happened for us to go from favourites to win to on the verge of going 1-0 down?

So depressing.
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Lyon bowled really well, especially to the lefties, but I didn't think their seamers had much about them. Root walked across his stumps, Bairstow played what might be the worst shot in the entire match, and the tail collapsed.

Their openers dug in to see off Broad and Jimmy, but then opened up on the rest of the attack. Ali has a split finger and carried no threat.
 
I still go back to the first innings, we should have got 400 minimum and then the Aussies would have been under serious pressure. To go from 240/4 or whatever it was to 300 all out is just shit and we've seen collapses like that happen enough times to know it's not just a one-off or great bowling by the opposition. It's a mentality issue with our batting, just poor shot selection time after time. I wouldn't even care if the Aussies blew us away with great bowling but it's all been fairly sedate from what I've seen - even the evening session on day three, Cook gave away his wicket rather than being bowled out. I know you've got to be positive etc these days but there's not enough solid, gritty batting in our team these days IMO, it's all a bit airy fairy - the likes of Vince, Malan, Ali, Bairstow, even Stokes - brilliant when it comes off but so vulnerable when put under any kind of pressure. Test cricket is a different animal to the limited overs stuff - give me prime Trott and Collingwood over any of them as pure batsmen in the Test team. Need at least four batsmen in the team who actually have a solid defence and can wear the opposition down, then fit the "flair" players around them. Bat big and long and make sure you're in a position where you at least can't lose the game, that should be the starting point IMO. The like of Vaughan and Warne woud moan about it being boring but fuck 'em.
 
Sadly I did post the crucial part is what wickets six to ten make.

Happened everytime in recent series that those wickets make all the difference.

I'm also not convinced modern at five as imo it should bairstow in this team and break up the potential left handers combo which Lyon has bowled excellently at.
 
rentaghost said:
I agree to a point but Stokes in for Ball and it looks a lot better. Anderson and Broad have bowled well but when you have to rely on both Woakes and Ball it becomes a weak collective attack. If we had Stokes bowling when they were 74/4 in the first innings and Stokes batting at 240/4 in our first innings we would be looking at an entirely different match situation IMO.
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No doubt Stokes is a huge miss with bat, ball, in the field and probably the dressing room. But the Aussies are just seeing Anderson and Broad off but neither looks a huge threat for world class bowlers. Broad should be bowling like Hazelwood but for some reason is in his 80/82 mph mode and the ball is not really swinging for Anderson. Woakes and in particular Ball just look short of the required standard on these wickets.
As far as the batting goes if Cook is not going to bat time during this series and keep getting out early then other than Stoneman or Root I don't think anyone else has the game to anchor the innings and score a 100 and the tail are just going to be bullied and blown away.
 
sonson said:
They haven't won comfortably, it's been very close. As predicted that's more the sign of two above average teams not having the killer instinct though. A good team would have beaten either side on these performances at a canter.

Australias attack is decent but they were ably supported by brainless middle order batting from England on both occasions. Their tail is alright but they wouldn't have survived a sustained assault. England couldn't give them that though because they only have two bowlers of any quality. The match has really been a battle of five good players or so across both sides stitching together the mediocrity of the rest.

Exciting ebb and flow but the quality across the teams has been middling
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I think going into the final day needing 50 odd runs with 10 wickets left is fairly comfortable like.
 
Discopants91 said:
I think going into the final day needing 50 odd runs with 10 wickets left is fairly comfortable like.
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It dosent reflect the balance of play though. Both sides have been on top of each other about the same amount up until towards the end of yesterday.

My point was that Australia aren't vastly superior or anything. They're not winning because they've dominated. They're winning because England let them off the hook several times. Australia likewise let England off the hook as well several times of course. Neither side was able to finish up until the final day. Whereas given the position both sides have been in with bat and ball a good team would have wrapped it up well before now.

But I dont think they're evenly matched. Australia are the better team in the circumstances (in Australia, Kookaburra ball, no Stokes, Cook totally out of sorts). They just haven't played like it. Smith won them this game. Take him out the side, put in someone about the same level as the rest of the team, keep everything else the same and it would still be in the balance.
 
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wayne entwhistle no9 said:
No doubt Stokes is a huge miss with bat, ball, in the field and probably the dressing room. But the Aussies are just seeing Anderson and Broad off but neither looks a huge threat for world class bowlers. Broad should be bowling like Hazelwood but for some reason is in his 80/82 mph mode and the ball is not really swinging for Anderson. Woakes and in particular Ball just look short of the required standard on these wickets.
As far as the batting goes if Cook is not going to bat time during this series and keep getting out early then other than Stoneman or Root I don't think anyone else has the game to anchor the innings and score a 100 and the tail are just going to be bullied and blown away.
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I think you are harsh on Broad and Anderson and to be perfectly honest apart from that evening session I think they have been every bit as good as their quicks. Stokes just makes the world of difference to the make up of the attack.
 
Smith was the only batsman to play a proper Test innings. I mean most of the top and middle order gave their wickets away on both sides. Stick a Kallis or an Amla in there against those deliveries and they'd still be batting.
 
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