BBC: Why is heroin killing so many people?

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I've never said it was legal so I don't know what point you're trying to make with me. I said they made a distinction between hard and soft drugs due to the physical and social harm they were causing. It amazes me that people don't want to focus on this and talk about loads of crap around it. But go see what happened in Colorado withw eed being made actual legal in terms of crime. You might learn something.
I was just pointing out that dutchland's drug policies are so pointless that you can legally buy weed which has been grown in illegal farms and your money is going into the pockets or criminal growers producing the product. See...I learned something.

At least we know where one stands in Singapore. Hung.
 


ha, basic economics suggests that it would?

i dont know the lass and im not from there but is that murton in the pics?

It isn't Murton mate, at first I thought it was Easington Colliery but I'm thinking it might actually be Blackhall now

Will be similar people living in all of the pit villages round here though
 
I do wonder what would happen if weed was legal.
Do you think people would move onto something else because it was illegal?

Genuine question. I'm just wondering if that might be the case. The thrill of having something you shouldn't have and all that

Nah. You're after a specific hit when smoking weed and no other substance provides it. The only reason people went and tried spice was because they had difficulty scoring weed and the marketing was 'synthetic cannabaniod', making it seem that it was basically the same stuff. Didn't take too long for some people to work out it wasn't and leave it well alone but others sadly got wrapped in it. It certainly hasn't happened anywhere where it has been made legal so I'd say the same thing would happen over here. Tend to find one of the reasons for trying different drugs is because of availability, can't get your usual so you try something that is being offered. Sad but true.

Don't get me wrong, if there was an answer to this that could eradicate all problems associated with all drugs, both legal and illegal, I'd be all for it. Prescribing heroin to current junkies doesn't eradicate all the problems but it's a step in the right direction and would at the very least suggest a cultural change is happening where we don't criminalise drug takers, we try to help those who want helping. I can't help but think what kind of a difference having this kind of policy in place 20 years ago would have made to people like me. Never know, some of my old school friends might still be alive.

I understand how drugs are sold and understand how new customers enter into it. I also know this kind of measure helps to put a brake on all that. Sorry if I come across harsh at times in my response but I've been on the shit end of that stigma stick for years with people looking down their nose at me or thinking I was scum. All because I'd ended up taking drugs to numb the pain I couldn't deal with and couldn't get any help with. It's weird, society doesn't want you to behave this way and gives you shit for doing so, but does fuck all to help you. Personally, I think we'll end up in a position where nothing like this will be implemented, the problems will grow, and the people who are lost and in the swamp will be blamed and looked down on for it. And we'll let their kids grow up in amongst that, then blame them later down the line when they start doing the same thing. That's what we're doing now and I don't see enough people who are so anti changing their minds. Probably need their child to die before taking a different view, and by then it's much too late.
 
Probably need their child to die before taking a different view, and by then it's much too late.

Lass I was at primary school was a druggie in Blackpool with her partner.
Their baby/toddler died because it got their methadone.

Waste of a life, but from what I recall, her parents were potentially on drugs too.

A mess from start to end. She's probably still in prison
 
It isn't Murton mate, at first I thought it was Easington Colliery but I'm thinking it might actually be Blackhall now

Will be similar people living in all of the pit villages round here though
It's Blackhall.
 
Again, you haven't read the article in the op. Other countries that have a model like this have see. reductions in the number of addicts.

It's supply and demand.

Why as a dealer would you prioritise heroin if your traditional customer base is f***ing off to a clinic every day?

There would be less demand and therefore supply would decline, meaning there's less opportunity for new addicts.

Are you taking the piss? The criminal gangs will just push something else to youngun's if heroin is suddenly none profitable for them. It's a game of whack a mole, you bray one and another will immediately pop up. You can never win.
 
I was just pointing out that dutchland's drug policies are so pointless that you can legally buy weed which has been grown in illegal farms and your money is going into the pockets or criminal growers producing the product. See...I learned something.

At least we know where one stands in Singapore. Hung.

So the money going over the counter isn't taxed in any way shape or form and all the money goes to criminal growers? Sounds about right, I'm sure that is exactly what happens. I knew people who grew weed in Holland and some of it went to coffee shops. Not a criminal gang in sight. That's my limited personal experience, what's yours. Or is this all anecdotal shite?

Holland had an average age of about 40 for a junky when I was there in my 20's, which was the generation that were already hooked on heroin and got it prescribed in the hard drugs/soft drugs social policy. Strangely, they didn't have a problem with heroin with the generation that I'm from, yet we in the UK did. Yet you can honestly say that their drug policies are pointless. You learned fuck all.
 
Are you taking the piss? The criminal gangs will just push something else to youngun's if heroin is suddenly none profitable for them. It's a game of whack a mole, you bray one and another will immediately pop up. You can never win.
I'm not taking the piss, I believe everything I've said in that post to be accurate.

I don't disagree with your post BTW, I don't think it undermines mine at all.
 
I agree about breaking the cycle but it's more than a f***ing suppose. Strangely enough, prescribing heroin actually achieves it. I've said it numerous times that this is exactly what Holland did and it stopped new users getting into it. And that's because all the hard core junkies weren't buying black market, they got it legal. This led to a reduction in the amount of dealers selling it, which in turn made it harder for new customers to find somewhere to score from. How the fuck people can not get that simple fact in their heads is beyond me. As I've said, I'm no expert but I have got a bit of an decent insight into the issues and the simple truth is this. The current system for dealing with drugs has failed and is failing and will continue to fail. The war on drugs is older than me and all I've seen come of it is more and more drugs being available and more money being made from them.

You want kids with parents who are fucked up not to have access to the drugs that fucked them up. Kill the f***ing market then, and target those who make money off the back off misery. But that's not morally appetizing for the perfect folk of Britain so guess we'll just carry on condemning those who are fucked up and let their kids have access to it. As that is what is happening right now, every day, up and down the country. Stark choice you all have; do something to alleviate the misery and the fallout of this shit or do nothing and let the same shit keep happening. Let's say the fate of all those kids is in your hands, what would you do? Do something to try to help them so they don't follow the same path or leave them to rot just because their parents fucked it up. Because currently, you're leaving them to rot

Spice, heroin, and weed are all different and have different effects. You chucking them all together shows an incredibly limited knowledge of drugs and how they work tbh. And I've said it before and I'll say it again, we only got Spice and all them 'legal highs' as cannabis was illegal. It was marketed as a safer alternative when it was actually more dangerous than weed. It's a brilliant example of how shitty legislation created a problem that never would have happened if weed had been legal.

To quote Roald Dahl


New customers will need their kicks if they can't get hold of junk. Boffing glue and special brew will turn their brains to gunk.......
 
Nah. You're after a specific hit when smoking weed and no other substance provides it. The only reason people went and tried spice was because they had difficulty scoring weed and the marketing was 'synthetic cannabaniod', making it seem that it was basically the same stuff. Didn't take too long for some people to work out it wasn't and leave it well alone but others sadly got wrapped in it. It certainly hasn't happened anywhere where it has been made legal so I'd say the same thing would happen over here. Tend to find one of the reasons for trying different drugs is because of availability, can't get your usual so you try something that is being offered. Sad but true.

Don't get me wrong, if there was an answer to this that could eradicate all problems associated with all drugs, both legal and illegal, I'd be all for it. Prescribing heroin to current junkies doesn't eradicate all the problems but it's a step in the right direction and would at the very least suggest a cultural change is happening where we don't criminalise drug takers, we try to help those who want helping. I can't help but think what kind of a difference having this kind of policy in place 20 years ago would have made to people like me. Never know, some of my old school friends might still be alive.

I understand how drugs are sold and understand how new customers enter into it. I also know this kind of measure helps to put a brake on all that. Sorry if I come across harsh at times in my response but I've been on the shit end of that stigma stick for years with people looking down their nose at me or thinking I was scum. All because I'd ended up taking drugs to numb the pain I couldn't deal with and couldn't get any help with. It's weird, society doesn't want you to behave this way and gives you shit for doing so, but does fuck all to help you. Personally, I think we'll end up in a position where nothing like this will be implemented, the problems will grow, and the people who are lost and in the swamp will be blamed and looked down on for it. And we'll let their kids grow up in amongst that, then blame them later down the line when they start doing the same thing. That's what we're doing now and I don't see enough people who are so anti changing their minds. Probably need their child to die before taking a different view, and by then it's much too late.

^^^

Just to support this post and its sentiments, there is a huge problem with spice in many of the North East prisons. There is also a problem in some prisons with Buscopan (!!!) being smoked. This isn't because people particularly like spice, but because it's much easier to smuggle into a prison than actual cannabis (a bag of synthetic cannabinoids can be worth thousands in prison and it would be impossible to smuggle in a comparable amount of weed). In addition MDT's (mandatory drug tests) can pick up on weed weeks after someone smokes it, whereas they struggle to pick up on all the synthetic cannabinoids, and they don't hang around in the system as long. Also if you smoke weed, you'll stink out the corridor and a guard will be along soon. So people don't smoke spice because they prefer it to weed (in prisons at least), but because the system has the unintentional consequence of pushing people to smoke it. I can't tell you how many people working in prisons I've met who think it would cause a lot less shit if prisoners could smoke hash every now and then. Of course it's politically unacceptable - "why should prisoners smoke weed?!?" - but it would almost certainly save lives and prevent prison officers being brutally attacked by someone losing their shit on spice. It would also save society a huge amount of money - it's thoroughly depressing how many people I've met who entered prison using alcohol/ drugs occasionally and became dependent on spice or opiates in prison.

I was just pointing out that dutchland's drug policies are so pointless that you can legally buy weed which has been grown in illegal farms and your money is going into the pockets or criminal growers producing the product. See...I learned something.

At least we know where one stands in Singapore. Hung.

Yes. The problem of the Dutch system is that while possession and buying is legal, supply is technically illegal. Cannabis clubs in Spain are a better model. The best model (imo) is Uruguay. You can buy weed legally from a state run supplier. Weed can't be more than 15% THC and there's a monthly ration. The price is also set by the state. The only addition I would make is that I'd stipulate a minimum amount of CBD in cannabis - circa 2%. But they have banned advertising. The aspect of the US models (thus far) which worries me is that they've not regulated the market properly and they've wound up with "big cannabis" who are advertising, pushing stronger products, and ones which would entice children (e.g. THC laced gummy bears).
 
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^^^

Just to support this post and its sentiments, there is a huge problem with spice in many of the North East prisons. There is also a problem in some prisons with Buscopan (!!!) being smoked. This isn't because people particularly like spice, but because it's much easier to smuggle into a prison than actual cannabis (a bag of synthetic cannabinoids can be worth thousands in prison and it would be impossible to smuggle in a comparable amount of weed). In addition MDT's (mandatory drug tests) can pick up on weed weeks after someone smokes it, whereas they struggle to pick up on all the synthetic cannabinoids, and they don't hang around in the system as long. Also if you smoke weed, you'll stink out the corridor and a guard will be along soon. So people don't smoke spice because they prefer it to weed (in prisons at least), but because the system has the unintentional consequence of pushing people to smoke it. I can't tell you how many people working in prisons I've met who think it would cause a lot less shit if prisoners could smoke hash every now and then. Of course it's politically unacceptable - "why should prisoners smoke weed?!?" - but it would almost certainly save lives and prevent prison officers being brutally attacked by someone losing their shit on spice. It would also save society a huge amount of money - it's thoroughly depressing how many people I've met who entered prison using alcohol/ drugs occasionally and became dependent on spice or opiates in prison.

great post

for my sins, i was in when MDT'S possibly started in about 95? lads used to get "phonecard deals" of a smoke - so £2 and maybe enough for a joint, usually once you were banged up for the night and behind your door with access to a window. all quite mellow, if you're that way inclined. 98, it was "temmys" as they didn't show up in regular MDT's, so you could get off your nut / head down and not lose any days. 2013, it was "subbys" (subutex) and "spice" started creeping in. temmys, subbys and now spice are causing the problems in there.
 
So the money going over the counter isn't taxed in any way shape or form and all the money goes to criminal growers? Sounds about right, I'm sure that is exactly what happens. I knew people who grew weed in Holland and some of it went to coffee shops. Not a criminal gang in sight. That's my limited personal experience, what's yours. Or is this all anecdotal shite?

Holland had an average age of about 40 for a junky when I was there in my 20's, which was the generation that were already hooked on heroin and got it prescribed in the hard drugs/soft drugs social policy. Strangely, they didn't have a problem with heroin with the generation that I'm from, yet we in the UK did. Yet you can honestly say that their drug policies are pointless. You learned fuck all.
Some of it went to coffee shops eh - that's nice. I'm sure that the few plants used for their own purpose catered admirably, not just for themselves but also for the bulk needed to cater for the tourist industry. I learned so much that Holland are now ready to admit they fucked their relaxed drug laws up and they're now looking to make weed legal with the government doing the growing and taking the illegal farms out of the loop. That's an admission that just relaxing drug laws has not worked for them. I learned lots.
 
f***ing electric chair is what they want,costing the tax payer a fortune to keep them alive ,contribute fuckall to anyone or anything .
Don't know anyone who's gone on the smack who's worth a toss,they are on it for life and will mug old woman etc for it.
Get shot of the kernts.
 
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