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More investigations for the mags from HMRC?

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horselover said:
And you know this how?
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Cos the mags are spawny and itll be a slap on the wrists.
I bet every fecker was giving under the counter payments when we got done in the strawgate scandal. Typical of us to get done big time and no one else.
Was the beginning of the decline in our big club reputation.
 

A mag I work with who knows employees at the club (he knew they were in talks with Rafa before it was announced in the press) has said the staff have been told to prepare for the worst and that they are expecting a punishment.
 
shaun61 said:
Cos the mags are spawny and itll be a slap on the wrists.
I bet every fecker was giving under the counter payments when we got done in the strawgate scandal. Typical of us to get done big time and no one else.
Was the beginning of the decline in our big club reputation.
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I'm not so sure mate although that seems to be an SMB fact.

This is a club that has recently been relegated twice, haven't been to Wembley since the 90's and have gone half of their entire existence without a major trophy.

They were prevented from being promoted by their local rivals as well as being relegated by them and lost 6 in a row.

If that's the extent of their luck I think they might be 'going down' again ;)
 
monty79 said:
A mag I work with who knows employees at the club (he knew they were in talks with Rafa before it was announced in the press) has said the staff have been told to prepare for the worst and that they are expecting a punishment.
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I don't have many friends so get very little info but I learned something, from a Monaco based business contact of Ken Bates, that really cheered me up.

Ashley happily agreed to allow Benitez to spend big to get back to the PL and was willing to 'go again' in the last window.

Deals, for 3 'top players' had been agreed providing Newcastle were promoted.

That stopped dead when a raid by HMRC resulted in the arrest of Lee Charnley just after promotion.

It's little more than gossip but it sounds right to me ...... although that's perhaps because I want it to be true.
 
Reiver said:
I don't have many friends so get very little info but I learned something, from a Monaco based business contact of Ken Bates, that really cheered me up.

Ashley happily agreed to allow Benitez to spend big to get back to the PL and was willing to 'go again' in the last window.

Deals, for 3 'top players' had been agreed providing Newcastle were promoted.

That stopped dead when a raid by HMRC resulted in the arrest of Lee Charnley just after promotion.

It's little more than gossip but it sounds right to me ...... although that's perhaps because I want it to be true.
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No idea if any truth in it but that would tie in.

Say 3 x £25 million players, then be faced with a £40 million fine, plus penalty, plus interest.
That could be an outlay / exposure of £150 million, coupled with an outside chance of losing their top flight income.

Doubt Sir Mike would leave himself open to that degree.
 
r@mside said:
Well, it's HMRC innit. Spent £6m investigating 'arry and couldn't prove owt.
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do you rely on the name of your dog for a bank account.

It is what is know as the "gerrard effect" after the Liverpool player, when he was tried for assault at Liverpool crown court.

both were found not guilty
 
Secret Visage said:
No idea if any truth in it but that would tie in.

Say 3 x £25 million players, then be faced with a £40 million fine, plus penalty, plus interest.
That could be an outlay / exposure of £150 million, coupled with an outside chance of losing their top flight income.

Doubt Sir Mike would leave himself open to that degree.
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The lad who I found out from didn't realise I have a vested interest or even a football supporter.

(Only the gardeners here know I'm a Sunderland supporter and that's because they cover for me when I go to games.)

I wasn't even really involved in the conversation and he wouldn't be likely to bullshit the person he was here to meet, it was a meeting about finance not football.

The bit I didn't really grasp was when he was talking about the club not 'spending big' if they thought they might receive a big fine, and possible demotion, because it could be seen as reckless expenditure. Unless NUFC had shareholders I can't see how being reckless would affect them. That would appear to make it look as if Ashley knows they're guilty and wouldn't escape a hefty punishment. Perhaps you or someone like Grumpy could explain. Is it something to do with running a business without due care & attention, or whatever the business term is, and who exactly would they be in trouble with?
 
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Reiver said:
The lad who I found out from didn't realise I have a vested interest or even a football supporter.

(Only the gardeners here know I'm a Sunderland supporter and that's because they cover for me when I go to games.)

I wasn't even really involved in the conversation and he wouldn't be likely to bullshit the person he was here to meet, it was a meeting about finance not football.

The bit I didn't really grasp was when he was talking about the club not 'spending big' if they thought they might receive a big fine, and possible demotion, because it could be seen as reckless expenditure. Unless NUFC had shareholders I can't see how being reckless would affect them. That would appear to make it look as if Ashley knows they're guilty and wouldn't escape a hefty punishment. Perhaps you or someone like Grumpy could explain. Is it something to do with running a business without due care & attention, or whatever the business term is, and who exactly would they be in trouble with?
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Ashley loves a business gamble, however gambling against HMRC is a different thing altogether.

I'm sure the club will have looked at the potential exposure if HMRC prove their case and they are found guilty, the snowball effect of penalties from the FA / PL will be what sets the alarm bells ringing.
As we know to our cost, the loss of income has crippled us this season. I doubt the mags would have players to sell, this time, to make up the loss in income if they were demoted or docked enough points to ultimately relegate them.
I doubt they would be able to raise the sort of money that Sissoko and Wijnaldum got them.
 
Secret Visage said:
Ashley loves a business gamble, however gambling against HMRC is a different thing altogether.

I'm sure the club will have looked at the potential exposure if HMRC prove their case and they are found guilty, the snowball effect of penalties from the FA / PL will be what sets the alarm bells ringing.
As we know to our cost, the loss of income has crippled us this season. I doubt the mags would have players to sell, this time, to make up the loss in income if they were demoted or docked enough points to ultimately relegate them.
I doubt they would be able to raise the sort of money that Sissoko and Wijnaldum got them.
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Once you're in the Premier League, you can get away with all sorts of shit. It'll be a daft fine and nowt else.
Not a f***ing chance that they will be demoted. It only happened at rangers cos they're in a shit league.
 
Secret Visage said:
Ashley loves a business gamble, however gambling against HMRC is a different thing altogether.

I'm sure the club will have looked at the potential exposure if HMRC prove their case and they are found guilty, the snowball effect of penalties from the FA / PL will be what sets the alarm bells ringing.
As we know to our cost, the loss of income has crippled us this season. I doubt the mags would have players to sell, this time, to make up the loss in income if they were demoted or docked enough points to ultimately relegate them.
I doubt they would be able to raise the sort of money that Sissoko and Wijnaldum got them.
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Having the likes of Colback earning £60/70k a week can't help can it ..... he'd still have a year to go on his contract if they went down to the 3rd division ;)
 
steve30000 said:
Once you're in the Premier League, you can get away with all sorts of shit. It'll be a daft fine and nowt else.
Not a f***ing chance that they will be demoted. It only happened at rangers cos they're in a shit league.
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It cost Scottish football a huge amount of money & prestige, very brave by the SFA.

The PL would be setting a huge precedent if they fail to administer an appropriate punishment.
 
horselover said:
If they're found guilty there's no chance of this. Relegation and a transfer ban is the very least that will happen. How many divisions they'll be relegated or how long a transfer ban they'll recieve is open to debate. They best prey they're found not guilty
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Just thinking that the punishment might be only half of it, if found guilty I'd imagine they'd have a pretty hefty tax bill to settle.
 
DiscoPants86 said:
Just thinking that the punishment might be only half of it, if found guilty I'd imagine they'd have a pretty hefty tax bill to settle .....
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...... plus their own solicitor's fees, costs, etc ;)

But sadly the biggest cost would be to the reputation of Ashley, NUFC and their supporters who are all highly regarded as decent, sensible and highly moral :lol:
 
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garyswc said:
There are two things going on, first of all will be the total amount of taxes which have been avoided which will need to be deduced and which might end up with a degree of extrapolation. If the estimate is determined that they've fiddled say £20M in taxes then thats the amount they will have to pay to HMRC. Plus in such a case of fraud a 100% penalty, so in this example that's taking us upto to £40M plus interest on the entire amount. Plus prison sentences for the directors of the time and potentially for anyone found to be acting as either a shadow director (Ashley) or a defacto director.

The Premier League can kick a club out of the PL and the FA can kick a club out of its entire league structure if certain rules have been breached.
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This was the other thing I was debating, the premier league might level their own punishment against them however I suspect this also occurred during one of their ventures into the championship so wonder if the FL would look to punish them also.
 
Reiver said:
TBF the HMRC have a very good hit rate and have been given large funding, from the government, to pursue tax evaders.

Redknapp escaped a conviction mainly because of the testimony of Milan Mandaric who was also involved.

From memory the amount involved was a fraction of what NUFC may be responsible for.

HMRC won't want to risk another 'football failure' so will have taken great care with this case.

Failure would encourage more tax avoidance whereas success would frighten a lot of clubs.

My money is on a successful prosecution.
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I expect this will be a major factor. Redknapp made them look foolish in a high profile football case that had a lot of media attention, I'm not sure they would even try another case like that unless they were pretty positive of the outcome. It would explain why they committed so much of their resources on the raids.
 
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