White supremacists matching in Virginia

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Robert Lee was a huge figure in their Civil War, whether you like that or dislike it, taking down his statue is disrespectful and bad taste. Was always going to cause a problem.

Robert Lee was a huge figure in the fight to keep black people as slaves, whether you like that or dislike it, leaving up his statue is disrespectful and bad taste. Was always going to cause a problem.

No answers that aren't disrespectful to someone. Question is, who do you choose to disrespect most.
 
People standing up to neo nazis are 'nutters'? There are some bizarre posts on this thread.

White supremacists, neo Nazis, emboldened by Trump, have found an excuse in the statue - which should be removed as it symbolises pro slavery ffs - to cause mayhem and ultimately murder someone. Yet people object to those who stand up to them? Sweet Jesus ...

I'm not justifying either side but before Trump was elected there were demonstrators attending Trump rallies and causing mayhem, I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of how crazy America is but, don't you think that played any part in them deciding we must defend ourselves and perhaps now it's gone a little too far? I don't think it's wholly Trump's fault though nor is it his followers, they have all been played like pawns on both sides. In my opinion
 
Frightening that. Like Black shirts and Brown shirts of Italy and Germany.

i am surprised they aren't dressed in traditional, dress of their former idols !, these people are the trump voters.. sickening
 
Apparently so. Still think he'll win next time if he stands because his voters are much more than just them.

i am hopeful, that some people take a re think after last night, do Americans really want the far right influencing policy, do they want people like bannon pulling the strings, from behind the scenes, as for next time out, we have to see what Robert Mueller's investigations come up with first and foremost of course
 
Robert Lee was a huge figure in the fight to keep black people as slaves, whether you like that or dislike it, leaving up his statue is disrespectful and bad taste. Was always going to cause a problem.

No answers that aren't disrespectful to someone. Question is, who do you choose to disrespect most.

Exactly, it's a lose-lose situation, surely the easiest thing to do is leave it, where its been for years? Are they going to take down a George Washington statue down? No, because he's the 'Good guy'. It's ludicrous to say a statue offends someone. Basically, the same 'Anti-violent' left groups have suddenly, after all these years decide now, they're offended.

The South, have every right to say, "This is my heritage, good or bad he is an important figure in our history". I understand why they're a bit pissed off. However, these stupid marches just brings out the hillbilly, poorly educated idiots.

Are we going to ask Scotland to take down their William Wallace statue? He murdered English men/women and sacked our Towns before he was caught, I want it down as it 'offends' me. Where is the line? Robin Wood was no saint, does that stay up? See where I'm going with this?
 
i am hopeful, that some people take a re think after last night, do Americans really want the far right influencing policy, do they want people like bannon pulling the strings, from behind the scenes, as for next time out, we have to see what Robert Mueller's investigations come up with first and foremost of course

It hasn't just came about with Trump's administration though so getting rid of Trump and saying all is fixed now doesn't mean this won't rear it's ugly head again. Trump is not the problem here.
 
Robert Lee was a huge figure in the fight to keep black people as slaves, whether you like that or dislike it, leaving up his statue is disrespectful and bad taste. Was always going to cause a problem.

No answers that aren't disrespectful to someone. Question is, who do you choose to disrespect most.
The us civil war was a lot more complicated than a fight for or against slavery. For many it was a fight for the primacy of state rights against federal interference.

Every state had the right to secede from the union I assume that the now don't.

Exactly, it's a lose-lose situation, surely the easiest thing to do is leave it, where its been for years? Are they going to take down a George Washington statue down? No, because he's the 'Good guy'. It's ludicrous to say a statue offends someone. Basically, the same 'Anti-violent' left groups have suddenly, after all these years decide now, they're offended.

The South, have every right to say, "This is my heritage, good or bad he is an important figure in our history". I understand why they're a bit pissed off. However, these stupid marches just brings out the hillbilly, poorly educated idiots.

Are we going to ask Scotland to take down their William Wallace statue? He murdered English men/women and sacked our Towns before he was caught, I want it down as it 'offends' me. Where is the line? Robin Wood was no saint, does that stay up? See where I'm going with this?
Richard the lion heart has a statue outside Westminster and was a crusader, have British muslims been offended?
 
Exactly, it's a lose-lose situation, surely the easiest thing to do is leave it, where its been for years? Are they going to take down a George Washington statue down? No, because he's the 'Good guy'. It's ludicrous to say a statue offends someone. Basically, the same 'Anti-violent' left groups have suddenly, after all these years decide now, they're offended.

The South, have every right to say, "This is my heritage, good or bad he is an important figure in our history". I understand why they're a bit pissed off. However, these stupid marches just brings out the hillbilly, poorly educated idiots.

Are we going to ask Scotland to take down their William Wallace statue? He murdered English men/women and sacked our Towns before he was caught, I want it down as it 'offends' me. Where is the line? Robin Wood was no saint, does that stay up? See where I'm going with this?
As posted earlier in the thread by someone who actually lived there, the city where the statue is, is very Liberal. The city council voted for it to be removed. The people who lived there decided to remove it. The far right who are kicking off about it are people who aren't even from there.
 
It hasn't just came about with Trump's administration though so getting rid of Trump and saying all is fixed now doesn't mean this won't rear it's ugly head again. Trump is not the problem here.


He may not be the problem, but he hasn't condemned, the white nationalists, spoken about the women murdered, he did however, keep quiet Saturday morning as a protest led by white nationalists, who arrived with torches and chants in Charlottesville, on Friday night, turned violent. The cable networks that he usually watches showed footage of increasingly violent clashes between the white nationalists, some of whom looked like soldiers because they were so heavily armed, and the counterprotesters who showed up to challenge them.

He kept quiet as David Duke, the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, declared that the scene in Charlottesville is a “turning point” for a movement that aims to “fulfill the promises of Donald Trump.”
 
The us civil war was a lot more complicated than a fight for or against slavery. For many it was a fight for the primacy of state rights against federal interference.

Every state had the right to secede from the union I assume that the now don't.


Richard the lion heart has a statue outside Westminster and was a crusader, have British muslims been offended?

It depends what the statue commemorates in my opinion and what it's used for, if it suddenly became a shrine for neo nazis then by all means we should tear it down because there's no place for hate in society. Interested to know if it has been used as a shrine by the far right before now because the cynic in my believes it will be going forward...
 
He may not be the problem, but he hasn't condemned, the white nationalists, spoken about the women murdered, he did however, keep quiet Saturday morning as a protest led by white nationalists, who arrived with torches and chants in Charlottesville, on Friday night, turned violent. The cable networks that he usually watches showed footage of increasingly violent clashes between the white nationalists, some of whom looked like soldiers because they were so heavily armed, and the counterprotesters who showed up to challenge them.

He kept quiet as David Duke, the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, declared that the scene in Charlottesville is a “turning point” for a movement that aims to “fulfill the promises of Donald Trump.”
Have to say I'm surprised by the amount of apologists about like.
 
Have to say I'm surprised by the amount of apologists about like.

indeed, its been an eye opener, that's for sure, trump should of done what was right and come out and said, their is no place for this in America in 2017, but he is hardly likely to criticise those who got him elected it's sickening
 
indeed, its been an eye opener, that's for sure, trump should of done what was right and come out and said, their is no place for this in America in 2017, but he is hardly likely to criticise those who got him elected it's sickening
Thing is with all this "fake news" and "alternative facts" bollocks - if he got impeached and kicked out you would have a large percentage of people saying it was all a conspiracy.

People simply believe what they want to believe. Nobody really debates things anymore so when people are confronted by others with a view that differs completely to theirs it's like it's a shock that they exist.

Watched a documentary recently on politics in Russia recently and it was all about how no one knows what it is true and what is fake anymore, the Kremlin fund far right groups and anti fascists. It's just a massive head fuck.
 
He may not be the problem, but he hasn't condemned, the white nationalists, spoken about the women murdered, he did however, keep quiet Saturday morning as a protest led by white nationalists, who arrived with torches and chants in Charlottesville, on Friday night, turned violent. The cable networks that he usually watches showed footage of increasingly violent clashes between the white nationalists, some of whom looked like soldiers because they were so heavily armed, and the counterprotesters who showed up to challenge them.

He kept quiet as David Duke, the former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, declared that the scene in Charlottesville is a “turning point” for a movement that aims to “fulfill the promises of Donald Trump.”
He has condemned the thing as a whole which is the best move in this scenario, ofcourse his opponents are going to use this as a stick to beat him with but he can't win either way condemning only one side - those saying so know this and politically it will force his hand hence they're continuing to highlight the fact he hasn't blamed one side. Has he condemned one side in the past or were his previous condemnations of the thing as a whole? I could be wrong but I only seem to remember him praising law enforcement and calling for the protection of people and their property.

Be interesting to hear from those who organised the march, have you heard/saw/read anything on that front?

Those heavily armed people being clashed with were the militias I believe, they went there to defend the protesters from the counterprotesters; such is the current state of America unfortunately.

The same David Duke lashing out at the president?

He can't win or lose in this instance and as someone has already said, can't believe he was this stupid; putting himself in the frame, drinking from the poisoned chalice but alas this is what power does.
 
i am hopeful, that some people take a re think after last night, do Americans really want the far right influencing policy, do they want people like bannon pulling the strings, from behind the scenes, as for next time out, we have to see what Robert Mueller's investigations come up with first and foremost of course
The replacement must be correct though. Easy to make it worse whether it be a Dem or Rep replacement.
 
Thing is with all this "fake news" and "alternative facts" bollocks - if he got impeached and kicked out you would have a large percentage of people saying it was all a conspiracy.

People simply believe what they want to believe. Nobody really debates things anymore so when people are confronted by others with a view that differs completely to theirs it's like it's a shock that they exist.

Watched a documentary recently on politics in Russia recently and it was all about how no one knows what it is true and what is fake anymore, the Kremlin fund far right groups and anti fascists. It's just a massive head fuck.

Good point, it may also be how Putin has kept power, for as long as he has, so maybe something to think about on that score..

He has condemned the thing as a whole which is the best move in this scenario, ofcourse his opponents are going to use this as a stick to beat him with but he can't win either way condemning only one side - those saying so know this and politically it will force his hand hence they're continuing to highlight the fact he hasn't blamed one side. Has he condemned one side in the past or were his previous condemnations of the thing as a whole? I could be wrong but I only seem to remember him praising law enforcement and calling for the protection of people and their property.

Be interesting to hear from those who organised the march, have you heard/saw/read anything on that front?

Those heavily armed people being clashed with were the militias I believe, they went there to defend the protesters from the counterprotesters; such is the current state of America unfortunately.

The same David Duke lashing out at the president?

He can't win or lose in this instance and as someone has already said, can't believe he was this stupid; putting himself in the frame, drinking from the poisoned chalice but alas this is what power does.

The same David Duke yes, now as for those who organised it, i am yet to see much from them, however if something comes up, and i see it, i will post it. just to add to the debate of course
 
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