White supremacists matching in Virginia

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Tadger said:
Good points.

I think a fair compromise would be placing the statue in a Civil War museum or an area dedicated to the history of the Confederacy. That way any black people that find it distasteful don't have to look at it but the posterity of the statue can be preserved.

If this had been a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest or even Jefferson Davies then I would say it was fair enough but Robert E. Lee was far more respectable in his worldview than either of those men where.
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Would you tolerate a statue of rommel?
 


Tadger said:
Good points.

I think a fair compromise would be placing the statue in a Civil War museum or an area dedicated to the history of the Confederacy. That way any black people that find it distasteful don't have to look at it but the posterity of the statue can be preserved.

If this had been a statue of Nathan Bedford Forrest or even Jefferson Davies then I would say it was fair enough but Robert E. Lee was far more respectable in his worldview than either of those men where.
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I'd agree with the first. Obliterating history is wrong, but putting things in an appropriate context is not. Plenty grim stuff in museums around the world. And yeah, I think you're right about Lee...but he picked the wrong side. Admiral Doenitz wasn't that much of a nazi-nazi, just a professional soldier. But...
 
Tadger said:
Because they incite riots and also are quick to judge an incident as having racial connotations before any investigation takes place. It makes them look like extremists that view all police action against black suspects as racist.
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(I know you're aware of this and aren't trying to argue otherwise but) it's not the same thing when on one side, you've got an extreme end of a campaign about a genuine grievance, and on the other you've got more extreme views and actions from people who are slap bang in the mainstream of their movement and have hardly any grievance at all
 
royalflash said:
how is it defending them to say both sides are fighting?! theyre quite clearly a bunch of nutters, both groups
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People standing up to neo nazis are 'nutters'? There are some bizarre posts on this thread.

White supremacists, neo Nazis, emboldened by Trump, have found an excuse in the statue - which should be removed as it symbolises pro slavery ffs - to cause mayhem and ultimately murder someone. Yet people object to those who stand up to them? Sweet Jesus ...
 
Tadger said:
What, here?

In Germany, in a designated place to commemorate the Second World War then yes.
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But not on public display in a common area. I would think many of us would physically oppose anyone who wished to erect one even in Germany. For all he was a gent, a good general and many of our forbears respected him, he worked for an evil aim ultimately.
No difference to RE Lee in the south apart from its like having the rommel statue in Golders green
 
Skandhaless said:
But not on public display in a common area. I would think many of us would physically oppose anyone who wished to erect one even in Germany. For all he was a gent, a good general and many of our forbears respected him, he worked for an evil aim ultimately.
No difference to RE Lee in the south apart from its like having the rommel statue in Golders green
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It's nowhere near a fair comparison. Maybe a thatcher statue in Sunderland but even then she is a contemporary villain and not a historical one.
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
It's nowhere near a fair comparison. Maybe a thatcher statue in Sunderland but even then she is a contemporary villain and not a historical one.
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I think the comparison is understated to be fair, it's ridiculous to think that descendants of slaves would see Lee as simply a historical figure worthy of respect for his craft.. or are we actually agreeing I'm not quite sure :confused:
 
Skandhaless said:
I think the comparison is understated to be fair, it's ridiculous to think that descendants of slaves would see Lee as simply a historical figure worthy of respect for his craft.. or are we actually agreeing I'm not quite sure :confused:
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Like I said before, at one point Lee was a hero (amongst white people primarily) in his native Virginia but attitudes have quite rightly changed.

I don't think that it's fair to judge him on contemporary terms and he wasn't directly responsible for engineering the slave trade on an industrial scale.

I cannot express how a black person feels when they walk past a statue of a 19th century former state hero. Maybe it's a good idea to have him there for young black kids to ask who he was and to learn about how their society has changed for the better.

hexhamali said:
Must have missed when Thatcher supported keeping miners as slaves.
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You've decided to entirely ignore the context.

I could act the arse too and ask when Rommel invaded Golders Green ffs
 
Stevie Freestein II said:
Like I said before, at one point Lee was a hero (amongst white people primarily) in his native Virginia but attitudes have quite rightly changed.

I don't think that it's fair to judge him on contemporary terms and he wasn't directly responsible for engineering the slave trade on an industrial scale.

I cannot express how a black person feels when they walk past a statue of a 19th century former state hero. Maybe it's a good idea to have him there for young black kids to ask who he was and to learn about how their society has changed for the better.
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I agree with everything you say about Lee from a neutral white perspective but I would think every black kid in Virginia knows who Bobby Lee was and what he tried to maintain by force of arms.

zinedine said:
Rommel has no connection what so ever with Golders Green so you're right it wasn't a fair comparison.
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OK then a statue of moseley in cable St. A historic British politician very popular in his time.
 
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Red N White Baron said:
There are more people enslaved today than have ever been enslaved by white westerners. Yet people are still determined to punish white men for their history.
People concentrate on the Deep South idiots rather than the 29 million slaves in non-white countries today.
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Its weird the americans being more concerned with american slavery than in lithuania like.
 
TK-421 said:
Tbf I don't think that's low down on their list. I've listened to some of these people talk in the flesh, they're radical all right.


I'm trying to make the point that there has been a ramping up of racial baiting on both sides over recent years that has led to the violence EXPERIENCED RECENTLY and today/yesterday.
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There are radicals on both sides that's for sure.

It's not just the rise of racial tension but the revival of defeated ideologies. Now I'm not saying the reich continued their work in America but to pretend this problem has popped up overnight with Trump is to ignore historical fact and contribute to this mess repeating itself in a few decades time, after we've "sorted it out" again of course. As it happens we've been slowly advancing toward this for some time and Trump's presidency directly or indirectly has literally poured petrol over the tinderbox, we're just waiting for the spark now - perhaps this will be it. Yes Obama was the first person in a long time that wanted to challenge institutional racism but even he faced tough opposition, people acting like business as usual is as a result of Trump are equally naive as those who still believe Trump is going to bring real positive change. That's not to say he isn't trying but I believe he's bit off more than he can chew and the change coming he has no control over at all.

Tommasi said:
Why do BLM get such a bad rep? Asking the police to stop shooting black people for no reason isnt much of a ask is it?
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Because that isn't all they're about... they have attracted radicals like flies to shit.
 
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