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Rafael Benítez

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AndrewP said:
Their results improved, but did their performances actually improve all that much? Obviously they played like world beaters once they were down, but before then, despite picking up more points per game, were they playing well?

He didn't fail in style like Shearer, but by not keeping them up he still failed, much like BSA would have failed had we gone down. I'd have stuck with BSA had we gone down narrowly this season, much like the mags will stick with Rafa. He still failed though.
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Technically I suppose so. But his failure is an awful lot smaller than what Allardyce's would have been, and there's pretty much no neutral who'd lay any blame at Benitez's door. And the last six games they were a decent. Very good against Swansea, Man City and Spurs, got a good point against Liverpool and were solid if unspectacular against Palace. Only the Villa game in that last six were they poor.
 
safcphill1985 said:
Just heard didi hamann spouting on about how if Rafa stays, Newcastle will regularly challenge the top 6.

2 issues with that.
No1- Newcastle fans don't need anymore fuel to their deluded fire.
No2- there are plenty of other teams already challenging for those positions, 2 thirds of the league could argue the same.
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I think they will be regularly challenging for the top 6 for years to come tbh mate as long as they don't win the play offs that's fine with me :lol:
 
Give it until Christmas when the mags are sitting in the bottom half of the championship, all 52,000 will be calling for his head with their Rafa out banners.
 
The Great Soprendo said:
Kind of agree, but the key point here was PL survival, and since we achieved that before the final round of games, the managers' relative performances in keeping the teams up ended after the Everton game. Probably not worth discussing too much further, but it's pretty clear to me (like most people) that Benitez's appointment did bring some improvement to their performances. The only thing that matters though, is that it didn't yield enough points and wasn't enough of a bounce to keep them up.
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That's a pretty good summary to be fair.

Laeotaekhun said:
How about SAFC's blunder in signing Defoe?
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:lol: If that's all you've got, I've beat you here lad.
 
Morny said:
Technically I suppose so. But his failure is an awful lot smaller than what Allardyce's would have been, and there's pretty much no neutral who'd lay any blame at Benitez's door. And the last six games they were a decent. Very good against Swansea, Man City and Spurs, got a good point against Liverpool and were solid if unspectacular against Palace. Only the Villa game in that last six were they poor.
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They weren't very good against Swansea & Man C. 4 points highly flattered them. 5 of their remaining 6 games were against teams who weren't at their best. We can really only say the same for us against Everton & possibly Watford.
 
AlpineExile said:
Do you not understand what the phrase "moving in the wrong direction means"? :rolleyes:

Allardyce's last ten games were 10 14 9 +5 ...
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So, just so we're clear, it's your assertion that; with only 10 games Benitez turned us from a club conceding more goals than we scored (28/53/-25), to a club scoring more goals than we conceded (16/12/4). But that's not moving in the right direction? Even though Allardyce, (who had 31 games and a transfer window) managed a GD that was better by 1 goal and you say that is the right direction?

Ok
 
Morny said:
So hold on. You've already said there's not enough games to accurately judge an improvement (even though they did show an improvement), but now you're using the fact results didn't improve by whatever yardstick you've set to prove your point.

If their wasn't enough games to use results as a measure, then people have to judge on their own eyes. The fact is, similar to Allardyce, he came in with a squad which isn't very good and made an improvement but not a ground-breaking one. Luckily for us Allardyce had more time and a transfer window and improved us considerably over time.
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Looking improved and getting improved results are two different things apparently.
 
Morny said:
So hold on. You've already said there's not enough games to accurately judge an improvement (even though they did show an improvement), but now you're using the fact results didn't improve by whatever yardstick you've set to prove your point.

If their wasn't enough games to use results as a measure, then people have to judge on their own eyes. The fact is, similar to Allardyce, he came in with a squad which isn't very good and made an improvement but not a ground-breaking one. Luckily for us Allardyce had more time and a transfer window and improved us considerably over time.
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Stop talking sense ffs
 
Morny said:
Technically I suppose so. But his failure is an awful lot smaller than what Allardyce's would have been, and there's pretty much no neutral who'd lay any blame at Benitez's door. And the last six games they were a decent. Very good against Swansea, Man City and Spurs, got a good point against Liverpool and were solid if unspectacular against Palace. Only the Villa game in that last six were they poor.
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Disagree, we were on our knees when Allardyce came in. 8 games into the season and not a single win, out outgoing manager left because he said the squad weren't good enough to stay up. BSA had a lot more time to change things, obviously, but I think had he missed out by a couple of points after that start then he'd have earned the chance to bring us back up.

Last 6 games in isolation again I see...... Even so, you obviously didn't watch the Swansea game as the were shite, Palace would have been yet another two points dropped had an ex player not passed back to the keeper. They showed good character against Liverpool and played well against a poor City team, agreed. Spurs was a glorified post season friendly.
 
The Fish said:
So, just so we're clear, it's your assertion that; with only 10 games Benitez turned us from a club conceding more goals than we scored (28/53/-25), to a club scoring more goals than we conceded (16/12/4). But that's not moving in the right direction? Even though Allardyce, (who had 31 games and a transfer window) managed a GD that was better by 1 goal and you say that is the right direction?

Ok
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It's an improvement but does it warrant the absolute adulation he has received?
 
AndrewP said:
Aye, GD was irrelevant in the end, unlike your lack of a win against either Sunderland or Norwich during the 10 game rafalution.
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Or our win against Villa or, or, or,

You have an inability to view the season, (or even Benitez's part of it) as a whole. Why is that?
 
G Force said:
They weren't very good against Swansea & Man C. 4 points highly flattered them. 5 of their remaining 6 games were against teams who weren't at their best. We can really only say the same for us against Everton & possibly Watford.
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Well that's all very subjective isn't it? You say 5 of those 6 teams weren't at their best? I don't think Arsenal were at their best against us (because they would have beat us, comfortably, if they were at their best). Chelsea weren't at their best, as again they'd beat us. Didn't see the Stoke game so cannot comment, although they had less to play for than some of the teams the Mags played so probably fall into the same category as your examples.

It's a silly argument based in bias, which automatically accounts all of our good results to being brilliant, and all the Mags to being lucky.
 
Morny said:
Ranieri also couldn't beat Aston Villa earlier in the season, is he shite? Or Pellegrini? etc....
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Villa lost (I think) every other one of their last 12 matches.
Benitez messed up at Villa, he kept the more solid formation that he had implemented (rightly) to keep them in games against sides with more quality. He didn't change it at Villa which he should of.
I'm glad he didn't but his safety first policy was a massive factor in them not winning at Villa which killed them with our Chelsea victory.

Benitez and the mags have 2 significant challenges in the Chamionship IMO -

1) Can Benitez be more expansive when his side have more quality than almost every opponent?
2) how will the enormous expectations for next season affect the team?
 
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