‘Irrelevant and toxic’ Labour losing out to Ukip, inquiry finds

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sidneyeric said:
St Helier (Merton) result: LAB: 71.0% (+11.6) CON: 13.9% (-1.0) UKIP: 9.4% (-10.2) LDEM: 2.9% (-3.1) GRN: 2.7% (+2.7)
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A local council by-election does not contradict the evidence of a long term trend; not least one in London where receptivity to UKIP is less than the rest of the country.
 
Randy Ostrich said:
Someone has to tackle immigration head on and detoxify it. It's no good saying people are racists and little Englanders. We need some positive messages.
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I said previously it was the only issue which was holding Labour back from success. I was roundly shouted down by all the usual suspects on here.
 
Randy Ostrich said:
Someone has to tackle immigration head on and detoxify it. It's no good saying people are racists and little Englanders. We need some positive messages.
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Well no one will be able to tackle immigration while we are in the EU.

The EU's open door policy has made a mockery of the claims by Cameron that he will reduce immigration.

No matter which government we elect they will not be able to control it under the EU.
 
SR5 1SU said:
Well no one will be able to tackle immigration while we are in the EU.

The EU's open door policy has made a mockery of the claims by Cameron that he will reduce immigration.

No matter which government we elect they will not be able to control it under the EU.
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No, I mean tackle immigration as a topic rather than avoid it. All we hear is negative and it's about time someone got on the front foot on this one and put forward a positive case.
 
It's quite telling that they like to avoid it and there is a reason for that.

Because the bottom line is you need to be able to control the levels of immigration entering the country. That is the only way to make the issue less toxic, anything else bullshit.

I suppose someone could try and put a positive spin on mass, unfettered immigration but it would not win many friends among the British public.

That was intended for Randy BTW.
 
The Sheepfolds End said:
If the only way Labour can win back voters is via dog-whistle, anti-migrant rhetoric then I hope they don't bother attempting to win them back - whether it's Corbyn or anyone else leading the party.
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Thats not true though is it. There's a massive chasm between 'anti migrant rhetoric' I.E. Hating people because they come from different countries, and opposing mass immigration for a number of socio-economic reasons.

The reason anti migrant rhetoric exists on the scale it does today is a direct result of people in the latter categories being sneered at for holding a perfectly valid opinion.
 
Newcastle Fan said:
Thats not true though is it. There's a massive chasm between 'anti migrant rhetoric' I.E. Hating people because they come from different countries, and opposing mass immigration for a number of socio-economic reasons.

The reason anti migrant rhetoric exists on the scale it does today is a direct result of people in the latter categories being sneered at for holding a perfectly valid opinion.
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To win voters back from UKIP, whose support is based primarily on anti-immigration rhetoric (remember when their leader once blamed being late on traffic that had been caused by immigration?), Labour would have to adopt dog whistle tactics.

Measured caution on immigration isn't enough for people who have gone to UKIP.
 
MrOompapa said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...cruddas-report-welfare-immigration?CMP=twt_gu

According to a report backed by the Co-operative party and the Fabians. Particularly over the issue of immigration...

But we are told Corbyn is more popular than ever and is winning them all back... so.. y'know
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If I thought that European migrants were really "stealing job" from Brits, I'd say we should look at the numbers.

Sadly, the fact is that we have many Brits who feel it's better to be on the dole for years than actually do any kind of job.

When I worked for the NHS, I did a second job of booking bank nurses onto shifts. These were nurses who only wanted to do certain shifts and be paid for those rather than have a full time contract.

I never had one Polish, African or whatever nationality ever cancel a shift on me.

Can't say the same about Brit nurses, who'd book night shifts and call us 5 minutes before start time to say they couldn't make it. I can guarantee that if I rang a Polish or African nurse, they'd do whatever it took to get on the ward.

I also recruited dozens of foreign doctors from all over the world and nobody ever complained about being treated by "Johnny Foreigner". The reason for so much foreign recruitment was that the Tories were cutting training places for junior doctors.

In order to recruit from abroad you have to do a labour marker test and advertise the job in at least 2 different places for at least 28 days. Because there's no response, it then falls to employers to employ foreign labour.

Also stayed in lots of hotels where the majority of staff are foreign staff...never had a problem.

If Labour started to play the race card, I'd be done with them.
 
The Sheepfolds End said:
To win voters back from UKIP, whose support is based primarily on anti-immigration rhetoric (remember when their leader once blamed being late on traffic that had been caused by immigration?), Labour would have to adopt dog whistle tactics.

Measured caution on immigration isn't enough for people who have gone to UKIP.
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Can you explain to me exactly what it is about opposing mass immigration that is so disgraceful, when the majority of all ethnic minority groups support reducing immigration levels, and when 78% of the U.K. support reducing immigration levels from 'hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands'.

Are you suggesting that immigration doesn't put pressure on public services?
 
Frijj said:
:rolleyes:
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UKIP's modus operandi is to leave the EU. Their main gripe with the EU is open door immigration. They adopt anti-immigration rhetoric to further their cause. As a result, their core support is made up of people who are anti-immigration.

It's hardly a controversial post.
 
The Sheepfolds End said:
UKIP's modus operandi is to leave the EU. Their main gripe with the EU is open door immigration. They adopt anti-immigration rhetoric to further their cause. As a result, their core support is made up of people who are anti-immigration.

It's hardly a controversial post.
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You keep confusing being anti immigration and anti-mass immigration and building a straw man argument as a result. The overwhelming majority of people in this country want to reduce immigration levels.
 
Newcastle Fan said:
Can you explain to me exactly what it is about opposing mass immigration that is so disgraceful, when the majority of all ethnic minority groups support reducing immigration levels, and when 78% of the U.K. support reducing immigration levels from 'hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands'.

Are you suggesting that immigration doesn't put pressure on public services?
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I've passed no comment on immigration, it's pluses or its downsides. I've simply said to win back voters from UKIP on the issue of immigration, they'd have to adopt a similar platform. I would hope the Labour Party would never do that.
 
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