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Mark Ramprakash

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The ability to play isn't the same as the ability to coach. See Mourinho, Wenger. And in a similar vein Shearer :lol:

Besides, he was a very fine technical player who was picked (as was Hick) when England were an utter shambles. And against a very fine West Indian attack. Were he to have been born 10 years later he would have been a very fine test player.

In my opinion obviously
 
Fair comment.

I take your Wenger, Josè comparissons and understand that, Troy Cooley being another example.
They are people who never really had the ability or got the chance at the top level.

Ramps however was an abject failure, can never remember a player having as many 2nd chances with England, in an era where dozens of players were given one test match & chucked on a scrapheap.
 
How can you judge a coach on his playing history to that extent. Surely if you're going to employ a coach you'd look at his history of coaching.
 
Mackem DJ said:
Fair comment.

I take your Wenger, Josè comparissons and understand that, Troy Cooley being another example.
They are people who never really had the ability or got the chance at the top level.

Ramps however was an abject failure, can never remember a player having as many 2nd chances with England, in an era where dozens of players were given one test match & chucked on a scrapheap.
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In the england setup of the mid 90s Joe Root would have been ditched after two pretty abject Ashes series' (bar his 180).
 
can't believe gooch lasted as long as he did tbh, the fact he was the only [high profile] member of the england set up that survived the debacle in oz when batting was perhaps our most glaring frailty was quite shocking. IMO
 
Twisted said:
can't believe gooch lasted as long as he did tbh, the fact he was the only [high profile] member of the england set up that survived the debacle in oz when batting was perhaps our most glaring frailty was quite shocking. IMO
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Gooch struggled on Australian wickets too.

Maybe there is a link between playing and coaching.

Mackem DJ said:
England batting coach :confused:

Discuss.
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I see your Ramprakash and raise you Peter Such.
 
Mackem DJ said:
Fair comment.

I take your Wenger, Josè comparissons and understand that, Troy Cooley being another example.
They are people who never really had the ability or got the chance at the top level.

Ramps however was an abject failure, can never remember a player having as many 2nd chances with England, in an era where dozens of players were given one test match & chucked on a scrapheap.
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Just for a bit of perspective for al his failures against WI at the beginning of his career and SA I think he was the only player to average 40 against the greatest side in the world at that time.
 
rentaghost said:
Just for a bit of perspective for al his failures against WI at the beginning of his career and SA I think he was the only player to average 40 against the greatest side in the world at that time.
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There was one away tour when he was quality but kept getting left with the tail. Took a mint catch at the MCG too that trip to turn a test.
 
Mackem DJ said:
Fair comment.

I take your Wenger, Josè comparissons and understand that, Troy Cooley being another example.
They are people who never really had the ability or got the chance at the top level.

Ramps however was an abject failure, can never remember a player having as many 2nd chances with England, in an era where dozens of players were given one test match & chucked on a scrapheap.
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Because he bossed the County batting averages for a decade. Hick was the same - how many chances was he given to 'come good'? John Crawley out-averaged both of them but got tossed on the scrap heap after a couple of poor tests against the crims.
 
smoker said:
Because he bossed the County batting averages for a decade. Hick was the same - how many chances was he given to 'come good'? John Crawley out-averaged both of them but got tossed on the scrap heap after a couple of poor tests against the crims.
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Batting at test level is about talent, technique and mental approach and you aren't going to succeed for very long without any of the three. The reason Ramps was persevered with more than most was because he had 1 and 2 more than any player for a generation - however he did have huge psychological issues that he was never able to overcome.
 
rentaghost said:
Batting at test level is about talent, technique and mental approach and you aren't going to succeed for very long without any of the three. The reason Ramps was persevered with more than most was because he had 1 and 2 more than any player for a generation - however he did have huge psychological issues that he was never able to overcome.
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Exactly. Think he said there was always too much going on in his head to play his natural game. He would get completely bogged down then get out to a rash shot.

Given this is the exact same problem that afflicted our batting in Australia, I would question whether he's the right man in the circumstances. Maybe he is, because of that - maybe he has analysed this problem more than others?
 
smoker said:
Exactly. Think he said there was always too much going on in his head to play his natural game. He would get completely bogged down then get out to a rash shot.

Given this is the exact same problem that afflicted our batting in Australia, I would question whether he's the right man in the circumstances. Maybe he is, because of that - maybe he has analysed this problem more than others?
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Really good point. I'm not sure how it works at test level and what the requirements of a batting coach are if i'm being honest. Ramprakash would be a strange choice to try and rectify the mental disintegration that happened in Australia but there are few better in terms of knowing about the technical aspects.
 
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