Tories tearing each other apart

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The game is to do enough to keep your cove vote happy while appealing to swing voter in the process. The modern labour party does not win elections by only appealing to its core vote. Did the party not learn fuck all from the wilderness years?

none of the last two elections were lost because the party wasn't left wing enough
I feel like we are going round in circles a bit here. But the point would be that the 'core' vote has changed a lot over time, and will change again depending on decisions the party take. The 'core' and 'swing' groups aren't fixed.
 


I feel like we are going round in circles a bit here. But the point would be that the 'core' vote has changed a lot over time, and will change again depending on decisions the party take. The 'core' and 'swing' groups aren't fixed.

Labours cove vote has been shrinking for years hence why you need to reach out. If don't move and adapt with the times you whither and die and become a irrelevance

Could you explain to me how Corbyns stance on immigration will win ukip voters back?
 
Again, there is nothing to positive will come from contributing to this. They are certainly not hiding, they are campaigning strongly but simply not making pathetic claims like leaving will cause another world war and staying will achieve what Hitler failed to do.

This is an email I received from Alan Johnston via Labour party circular tonight.

"Dear Bagpuss

Im currently spending all my time travelling around the country, letting people know why it's so important they vote to remain in Europe on 23 June. But I know I'm just one part of this massive Labour campaign.

Sunderland Central is a key area in this referendum, so you're uniquely placed to help us win.

There are a large number of Labour supporters in Sunderland Central who are still undecided about how they'll vote. They want to hear the facts from local Labour members and supporters — voices they can trust. It is vital we get out and explain why Labour is In for Britain in Sunderland Central.


We need you to join other Labour volunteers in your area, and have conversations on the doorstep that let people know why they should vote to Remain on 23 June.

What: Labour IN for Britain campaigning - Sunderland Central

When: Saturday 28 May, 10.30am

Where: corner of Tunstall Terrace West and Ashwood Street, Sunderland, SR2 7AE

I'll see you there!

I'll sign up to help on 23 June


In this referendum, we'll make such a big decision about Britain's future. Britain is better off in Europe. It brings us jobs, growth and investment, protects British workers and consumers and helps keep us safe. Leaving would put that at risk and diminish Britain's influence in the world.

Thank you for being part of Labour In for Britain with me. It's only together we can win this referendum.

Alan Johnson
Chair of Labour In for Britain


Labour are campaigning hard but simply not embarrassing themselves in the way the tories on both sides are. This is 100% the right strategy imho, there are few voters, even tory voters who do not think that their public in/out campaign is anything but pathetic scaremongering.
So basically you got a mass mail off Alan Johnson and that counts as labour campaigning hard.
Also you say no good can come from getting involved, is this how labour will conduct themselves in the future, shying away from the decisions that make the country tick.
If they were in power would they shy away from addressing the deficit, a terrorist attack? Tackling the problems in education or health?
Hiding isn't an option if they want to rule the country. Of course it's the perfect option if they intend to just slope into the sunset and fade away. Turn the lights out when your done kidda.

It implies that all of this talk of 'the importance of Middle England' etc. is only important when the Labour party occupies a certain position. Once Labour push back to a more traditional position then they will start to attract a different constituency (e.g. they will lose some middle income votes but gain working class ones).
You mean different constituency as in? The traditional labour vote is the north and Wales, and some of the mids, north west and London more recently.
These they will win for the foreseeable future because, especially in the north and wales, big swathes vote labour because their parents and grandparents did.
Traditional working class areas aren't what they were, and will change gradually and move away from labour as people think what are labour offering us.
Most don't work in heavy industry, most aren't part of unions, most aren't grasping round for the next meal, they are more likely looking for the next holiday to book. Labour has to move with the times, not step back to some yesteryear idea of labour that doesn't fit the country anymore
 
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So basically you got a mass mail off Alan Johnson and that counts as labour campaigning hard.
Also you say no good can come from getting involved, is this how labour will conduct themselves in the future, shying away from the decisions that make the country tick.
If they were in power would they shy away from addressing the deficit, a terrorist attack? Tackling the problems in education or health?
Hiding isn't an option if they want to rule the country. Of course it's the perfect option if they intend to just slope into the sunset and fade away. Turn the lights out when your done kidda.


You mean different constituency as in? The traditional labour vote is the north and Wales, and some of the mids, north west and London more recently.
These they will win for the foreseeable future because, especially in the north and wales, big swathes vote labour because their parents and grandparents did.
Traditional working class areas aren't what they were, and will change gradually and move away from labour as people think what are labour offering us.
Most don't work in heavy industry, most aren't part of unions, most aren't grasping round for the next meal, they are more likely looking for the next holiday to book. Labour has to move with the times, not step back to some yesteryear idea of labour that doesn't fit the country anymore
I'll reply properly tomorrow as I'm on my phone in bed. I agree Lab needs to look forward. My claim would be appealing to middle England is looking back - that was the dynamic 94-05. But it's not a universal rule of nature, and it doesn't seem to hold as well now. + it is worth thinking about results like Obama - mobilising is important too. I'm falling asleep so that post could be utter rubbish, I'll do a proper one tomorrow!
 
Never voted Labour in my life and only once for Tories,
but having watched day after day of blatant lies and deceit, I must admit that this current disgusting shower of shit of a govt makes me ashamed to be British.
 
Truth difficult to take? Im not sure a git massive red bus is hugely subtle, not sure he can make his position much clearer tbh....Or do you want him to join your pathetic friends in claiming world wars and nazi take overs?
It's more the abuse and lies you're tossing about
 
Truth difficult to take? Im not sure a git massive red bus is hugely subtle, not sure he can make his position much clearer tbh....Or do you want him to join your pathetic friends in claiming world wars and nazi take overs?
Any comments on this 24h later mate?
 
Long may this continue, the bitterness in which they are laying into each other suggests that the wounds they are opening up are unlikely to be healed any time soon.....Early election on the cards imho. Sorry the link is from twatbook, cant find the film anywhere else.

I haven't had as much fun watching, since I bought the boxed set of The Sopranos. Sadly there'll be nee early election but it's still jolly good fun.
 
My problem with JC's view on Europe is not that he's changed it (people are entitled to change their minds) but that the only issues he talks about are employment rights and environmental protection. I completely agree with him that the EU has driven positive change and delivered real protections in both these areas, but there is so much more to this debate than just those issues, and I would expect a man who wants to be prime minister to talk to us about the benefits and problems brought by freedom of movement of people and capital, speak frankly to us about the Eurozone and whether/how it can be sorted and the impact for us, and speak for the many positive arguments for being part of an economic bloc whose joint GDP is bigger than the USA's in an increasingly globalised world, etc etc. He never does.

On another issue, the Guardian has reported that he has 'criticised the media for focussing too much on Tory splits'. Having read the article, I think the headline is a little unfair as that's not quite the focus of what he said, but he does come across as completely disinterested in exploiting the Tories' disarray, and I just can't understand it. You're Jermaine Defoe in front of the Mags' goal with only the keeper to beat and an easy angle - you just need to slam it home and make the crowd roar.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-social-media-to-push-eu-message-says-corbyn

I'll reply properly tomorrow as I'm on my phone in bed. I agree Lab needs to look forward. My claim would be appealing to middle England is looking back - that was the dynamic 94-05. But it's not a universal rule of nature, and it doesn't seem to hold as well now. + it is worth thinking about results like Obama - mobilising is important too. I'm falling asleep so that post could be utter rubbish, I'll do a proper one tomorrow!

I just don't get this. Why ignore a massive part of the electorate?
 
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My problem with JC's view on Europe is not that he's changed it (people are entitled to change their minds) but that the only issues he talks about are employment rights and environmental protection. I completely agree with him that the EU has driven positive change and delivered real protections in both these areas, but there is so much more to this debate than just those issues, and I would expect a man who wants to be prime minister to talk to us about the benefits and problems brought by freedom of movement of people and capital, speak frankly to us about the Eurozone and whether/how it can be sorted and the impact for us, and speak for the many positive arguments for being part of an economic bloc whose joint GDP is bigger than the USA's in an increasingly globalised world, etc etc. He never does.

On another issue, the Guardian has reported that he has 'criticised the media for focussing too much on Tory splits'. Having read the article, I think the headline is a little unfair as that's not quite the focus of what he said, but he does come across as completely disinterested in exploiting the Tories' disarray, and I just can't understand it. You're Jermaine Defoe in front of the Mags' goal with only the keeper to beat and an easy angle - you just need to slam it home and make the crowd roar.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-social-media-to-push-eu-message-says-corbyn



I just don't get this. Why ignore a massive part of the electorate?

Why should the Tories ignore a key part of the electorate by targeting middle income groups at the expensive of outsider working class groups?

The reality is you cannot target the whole electorate, so it comes down to identifying and targeting the relevant cleavages. I would suggest the groups that won Blair 97,01 and to a lesser extent 05 don't exist in quite the same way today.
 
I'm not sure how many of the 'Eurosceptic 50' would take on the 1922 Committee and the Whip. They'll need two thirds, I think? I can't see it but I've bought the popcorn, just in case.
Once they get the 50 and they will the dye is cast and it'll be a matter of time before Cameron fucks off. With even 30 legislation os going to be impossible for Cameron to pass, he'll be a 4 year lame duck prime minister
 
Once they get the 50 and they will the dye is cast and it'll be a matter of time before Cameron fucks off. With even 30 legislation os going to be impossible for Cameron to pass, he'll be a 4 year lame duck prime minister
Better get more popcorn.
 
Once they get the 50 and they will the dye is cast and it'll be a matter of time before Cameron fucks off. With even 30 legislation os going to be impossible for Cameron to pass, he'll be a 4 year lame duck prime minister

He's back tracking as we speak. Trying to calm the Brexiteers with some halfhearted shit. He's dead in the water thank fuck and he can take that c*nt Gideon with him. I voted for the twat too!
 
He's back tracking as we speak. Trying to calm the Brexiteers with some halfhearted shit. He's dead in the water thank fuck and he can take that c*nt Gideon with him. I voted for the twat too!
Both are gone, they've derided and slandered a lot of their own mps and support. Lied en masse and basically treated a lot of Tory support and the public like shit.
 
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