Tories tearing each other apart

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Oh so we like just left of centre labour when it suits the argument?

It would be nice to know what the leader of the opposition thinks about brexit to be fair. Dignified silence is coming across as don't have a f***ing clue as it's happening outside my Islington enclave

He has made it quite clear to be fair. Of course it is left to the few non Tory papers to report it. You talk utter shit tbh, try looking beyond the end of your blue nose and will take about a nano second to find out what he thinks. Sadly you wont cause you would rather make shit up like your mate Murdoch.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-launches-eu-bus-7935836
 


Have you been drinking?

Truth difficult to take? Im not sure a git massive red bus is hugely subtle, not sure he can make his position much clearer tbh....Or do you want him to join your pathetic friends in claiming world wars and nazi take overs?
 
Disagree with you and your took in by right wing media aren't you??

Is "your" the same as "you're?"

You claimed Corbyn had not made his position clear, I showed he you had, sadly the only people reporting it were the non murdoch press. He has made it extremely clear, Labour are campaigning all over the country to stay, you dont realise this cause the papers you read dont report it. I knew it as I make sure I read something other than the Sun and the Mail
 
Is "your" the same as "you're?"

You claimed Corbyn had not made his position clear, I showed he you had, sadly the only people reporting it were the non murdoch press. He has made it extremely clear, Labour are campaigning all over the country to stay, you dont realise this cause the papers you read dont report it. I knew it as I make sure I read something other than the Sun and the Mail

Show me a quote where I said Corbyn has never made his position clear?
 
I have a paper for the resident Blairites to read - Evans & Tilley 2012. They put forward a very good case that the decline in class voting is because the Labour party moved to the right (e.g the Labour party moving caused the change, not vice versa). It implies that all of this talk of 'the importance of Middle England' etc. is only important when the Labour party occupies a certain position. Once Labour push back to a more traditional position then they will start to attract a different constituency (e.g. they will lose some middle income votes but gain working class ones). It implies that when the parties are ideologically close together, it all comes down to valence, e.g the issues that matter and who would make a better leader. But if they polarise that will change.

Regarding the EU, I think Corbyn should be very careful about getting involved in it, for the same reason you would expect a Tory opposition not to get too involved in a debate about child poverty or whatever. The unfortunate reality is that if Labour get too involved they would be more likely to lose votes than gain them.
 

He said the whole Labour movement not half a dozen Blairites. He was voted in on a mandate not even managed by Blair, that position has not changed. The Labour movement massively backs him.

I have a paper for the resident Blairites to read - Evans & Tilley 2012. They put forward a very good case that the decline in class voting is because the Labour party moved to the right (e.g the Labour party moving caused the change, not vice versa). It implies that all of this talk of 'the importance of Middle England' etc. is only important when the Labour party occupies a certain position. Once Labour push back to a more traditional position then they will start to attract a different constituency (e.g. they will lose some middle income votes but gain working class ones). It implies that when the parties are ideologically close together, it all comes down to valence, e.g the issues that matter and who would make a better leader. But if they polarise that will change.

Regarding the EU, I think Corbyn should be very careful about getting involved in it, for the same reason you would expect a Tory opposition not to get too involved in a debate about child poverty or whatever. The unfortunate reality is that if Labour get too involved they would be more likely to lose votes than gain them.


Dont come on here talking sense, the tories will accuse you of being pissed :lol::lol:
 
I have a paper for the resident Blairites to read - Evans & Tilley 2012. They put forward a very good case that the decline in class voting is because the Labour party moved to the right (e.g the Labour party moving caused the change, not vice versa). It implies that all of this talk of 'the importance of Middle England' etc. is only important when the Labour party occupies a certain position. Once Labour push back to a more traditional position then they will start to attract a different constituency (e.g. they will lose some middle income votes but gain working class ones). It implies that when the parties are ideologically close together, it all comes down to valence, e.g the issues that matter and who would make a better leader. But if they polarise that will change.

Regarding the EU, I think Corbyn should be very careful about getting involved in it, for the same reason you would expect a Tory opposition not to get too involved in a debate about child poverty or whatever. The unfortunate reality is that if Labour get too involved they would be more likely to lose votes than gain them.

So they will turn red seats even redder while not turning blue to red? That's a sure fire way to win a election that
 
So they will turn red seats even redder while not turning blue to red? That's a sure fire way to win a election that
No. That is not the idea at all.

You could turn a blue seat red by turning voters (working class or lower middle income) who voted Tory (because they thought the two parties were more or less the same and so voted on leader preference) to Labour because now Labour offer a clear class-based reason to vote for them, whereas when the two parties converge on the centre there is no reason to vote on class lines, so people wind up voting on who looks the best, talks about what they care about, etc etc etc.

In other words Labour moving left would hopefully push voters to vote more along class lines, and so there would be less reason to have a fight for 'Middle England'. That would be the idea at least.
 
No. That is not the idea at all.

You could turn a blue seat red by turning voters (working class or lower middle income) who voted Tory (because they thought the two parties were more or less the same and so voted on leader preference) to Labour because now Labour offer a clear class-based reason to vote for them, whereas when the two parties converge on the centre there is no reason to vote on class lines, so people wind up voting on who looks the best, talks about what they care about, etc etc etc.

In other words Labour moving left would hopefully push voters to vote more along class lines, and so there would be less reason to have a fight for 'Middle England'. That would be the idea at least.

Labour are haemorrhaging working class votes to ukip cos of there stance on immigration and that alone yet you think a move left will get them back on board. I think its absolute bollocks tbh
 
Labour are haemorrhaging working class votes to ukip cos of there stance on immigration and that alone yet you think a move left will get them back on board. I think its absolute bollocks tbh

The idea would be that the reason they have lost so many votes to UKIP is precisely because of where NL moved the party to. In appealing to a new constituency they neglected their old one.

If Corbyn fails to get back working class votes from UKIP then he will have failed in his job as Labour leader. I think he will get those votes back. We shall see.
 
The idea would be that the reason they have lost so many votes to UKIP is precisely because of where NL moved the party to. In appealing to a new constituency they neglected their old one.

If Corbyn fails to get back working class votes from UKIP then he will have failed in his job as Labour leader. I think he will get those votes back. We shall see.

The game is to do enough to keep your cove vote happy while appealing to swing voter in the process. The modern labour party does not win elections by only appealing to its core vote. Did the party not learn fuck all from the wilderness years?

none of the last two elections were lost because the party wasn't left wing enough
 
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